Hamilton 166-190 Main Street West | 87.1m | 27s | BentallGreenOak | Kirkor

[innsertnamehere]

Looks like this is going to be phased with the tower on Hess going first - hopefully soon!

Makes sense why they resurfaced the eastern 2/3 of the lot this year but left the western 1/3 as a gravel heap.. it won’t be a gravel heap too much longer, hopefully.

 

[TheHonestMaple]

Can someone enlighten me on where in the process this committee of adjustment is? Maybe someone can explain which steps a development needs to go through, from the very first submission to construction. For example, where does site plan application come in, vs committee of adjustment. All very confusing.

 

[Chris R.]

Can someone enlighten me on where in the process this committee of adjustment is? Maybe someone can explain which steps a development needs to go through, from the very first submission to construction. For example, where does site plan application come in, vs committee of adjustment. All very confusing.

I wish the City of Hamilton had a similar development transparency like Toronto or even Burlington, it would make the process a lot more clear.

 

[PaperSun]

Access onto Hess Street is just silly.

 

[KingJames]

And also begs the question of how much the architect really does their due diligence

 

[TheHonestMaple]

The entrance on Hess is actually just a loading bay, so it won't see much activity.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Can someone enlighten me on where in the process this committee of adjustment is? Maybe someone can explain which steps a development needs to go through, from the very first submission to construction. For example, where does site plan application come in, vs committee of adjustment. All very confusing.

The way it used to work was that minor variances would be applied for towards the end of the approvals process, which would be the case here. So this variance indicates that they are getting close to final approval.

The old process used to be, more or less:

1. Zoning or Official Plan Amendment application (if needed - much of Hamilton has existing zoning so it's not necessary, as in this project)
2. Site Plan application
3. Minor Variance (not usually needed if you did 1.)
4. Clearance of Site Plan conditions (the city "approves" your site plan application, then you have to clear conditions - i.e. pay fees, get building addresses finalized, get approval from utilities for hookups, etc.)
5. Building Permit

The province changed the rules around applications effective July 1 though (exempting applications already in process), requiring that site plans be processed in 60 days (vs. ~6 months to 1 year before). To make this happen, the City is requiring applicants do a lot more work before submitting the application. So minor variance applications have been moved in front of site plan applications now:

1. Zoning or Official Plan Amendment / Minor Variance (whichever is needed)
2. Site Plan Approval
3. Clearance of Site Plan Conditions
4. Building Permit

The shifting of things includes other items like the Design Review Panel as well - typically that was done after an application, now it is done before.

The new Vranich project on King East is under the new process for example - it is in front of the Committee right now despite not having an active site plan application yet. Meanwhile this project has had a site plan application in for a while already and is just getting to the Committee now, as it's under the old process.

The change means that by the time a development will be getting a site plan application, it's already almost approved, more or less. I expect to see much smaller gaps between site plan application and construction now, as most of the work is completed before an application is made public through a formal application to the city.

 

[Chris R.]

I

The way it used to work was that minor variances would be applied for towards the end of the approvals process, which would be the case here. So this variance indicates that they are getting close to final approval.

The old process used to be, more or less:

1. Zoning or Official Plan Amendment application (if needed - much of Hamilton has existing zoning so it's not necessary, as in this project)
2. Site Plan application
3. Minor Variance (not usually needed if you did 1.)
4. Clearance of Site Plan conditions (the city "approves" your site plan application, then you have to clear conditions - i.e. pay fees, get building addresses finalized, get approval from utilities for hookups, etc.)
5. Building Permit

The province changed the rules around applications effective July 1 though (exempting applications already in process), requiring that site plans be processed in 60 days (vs. ~6 months to 1 year before). To make this happen, the City is requiring applicants do a lot more work before submitting the application. So minor variance applications have been moved in front of site plan applications now:

1. Zoning or Official Plan Amendment / Minor Variance (whichever is needed)
2. Site Plan Approval
3. Clearance of Site Plan Conditions
4. Building Permit

The shifting of things includes other items like the Design Review Panel as well - typically that was done after an application, now it is done before.

The new Vranich project on King East is under the new process for example - it is in front of the Committee right now despite not having an active site plan application yet. Meanwhile this project has had a site plan application in for a while already and is just getting to the Committee now, as it's under the old process.

The change means that by the time a development will be getting a site plan application, it's already almost approved, more or less. I expect to see much smaller gaps between site plan application and construction now, as most of the work is completed before an application is made public through a formal application to the city.

I also believe this is why the Formal Consultation stage has become a larger part of the process and has gotten longer and more expensive. One of my favourite housing YouTubers called out Hamilton specifically for doing this to avoid the new Ford era housing rules, which while heavy handed are much needed considering the emergency that housing currently is.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I

I also believe this is why the Formal Consultation stage has become a larger part of the process and has gotten longer and more expensive. One of my favourite housing YouTubers called out Hamilton specifically for doing this to avoid the new Ford era housing rules, which while heavy handed are much needed considering the emergency that housing currently is.

I'm sympathetic to the Ford for making changes to speed up the approvals process - the way it was done wasn't it.

The reality of site plan is that it's quite technical and that the work needs to be done. All that's happening now is that the work is all getting done in advance of a site plan application, instead of after.

 

[TheHonestMaple]

So, if you had to make a guess when do you think Phase 1 construction will start?

 

[innsertnamehere]

Looking at the architectural plans here - a couple of notes.

5-6 levels of underground parking proposed here. That will be one big garage, and the deepest in the city from my understanding.

The Hess St. Elevation does have the loading dock, but they appear to be proposing some fancy garage door to make it a bit nicer of a condition:

Building heights here now seem to be between 84 and 87 metres @Paclo

The courtyard:

still don't love the Main St elevation:

The Main and Caroline corner works fairly well however:

as does the interface with Hess St, I think:

George St is lined by red brick townhouse units, which works well too:

 

[Chris R.]

I'm sympathetic to the Ford for making changes to speed up the approvals process - the way it was done wasn't it.

The reality of site plan is that it's quite technical and that the work needs to be done. All that's happening now is that the work is all getting done in advance of a site plan application, instead of after.

I do think it makes sense for Site plan to be done last before permits. It means the developer is more serious that they plan on building before submitting the Site Plan application. Makes sense to me too that all the ducks are in a row, and minor adjustments are made before submitting SP too.

Side note: I do think there's a missed opportunity to have a bit more retail space, even at the inner courtyard area where a cafe, dentist, doctor, brewery could rent. I walked down George today, and realized this is going to be a very residential section of what could be a bustling retail area, especially with so many new residents coming to the area.

Could even handle a few smaller retail spaces on George or the northeast corner at George and Caroline. There will be 1100-1500 built in shoppers, and with the McMaster residence finishing off, and two buildings at Main/Queen proposed I'd expect far more people on this western side of downtown.

 

[Paclo]

New renderings and statistics have been updated in the database. Attached below is the main rendering:

 

[KingJames]

The entrance on Hess is actually just a loading bay, so it won't see much activity.

Loading bay for how many rental units... Going to be busy on month's end

 

[Bojaxs]

What's Hess village like these days? I used hit this place up almost every weekend between 2009-2014. Pre-drinks at Diavolo's and then head into Sizzles. Haven't been back since. Does the place still get wild on the weekends? Do they still have police on horse back trotting around? I witnessed lots of drugs and violence. Not sure why you'd want to live right in the thick of it all.

Is the street still lined with clubs? Or have the owners converted it all to restaurants/ cafes?