Hamilton 125 Napier Street | 132.06m | 41s | Vrancor Development | NEUF

Hopefully the others rendering were just leaving out the landscaping details and it'll follow that final image you shred.
 
innsertnamehere said:
Wait, the city settled for above escarpment height? That’s… very, very surprising.
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If you're referring to my comment, that was pure speculation, but considering this was already proposed and the community pushed back against it, perhaps the city came to an agreement with Vrancor that would somewhat give neighbours what they want.

Alternatively this could be Vrancor going "lmao 🖕" to the neighbours.
 
Chris R. said:
If you're referring to my comment, that was pure speculation, but considering this was already proposed and the community pushed back against it, perhaps the city came to an agreement with Vrancor that would somewhat give neighbours what they want.

Alternatively this could be Vrancor going "lmao 🖕" to the neighbours.
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Word from the Shadow Dwellers is that it's currently headed for the OLT.
 
Bubba McGuff said:
Word from the Shadow Dwellers is that it's currently headed for the OLT.
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This is more believable than the city settling, but I could see it if staff think the writing is on the wall for the OLT to abolish the height limit. The proposal on Jackson is due to go later this year, and that is the make or break moment for the height limit. And personally, I don’t think the city can put together a strong enough case given the OLT’s disposition and the shoddy footing of the policy.

So, If the city knows something we don’t (or has no confidence in its ability to provide a compelling planning case at the tribunal) then this design arrangement might be ideal. Especially if Vranich waves this as a threat- either the city gives the OK and gets a design the neighbours (maybe) accept while retaining effective control over downtown development, or the project goes to the OLT, wins, and potentially eradicates the limit in the process. This would nullify the city’s say over development in general ala Burlington- or at least, that’s what I’d be thinking if I was the city right now.

This is essentially Vranich posing the question (again) “will you die on this hill? Or will you give a foot to keep your place?” While such a game is a bit elaborate for where a simpler explanation might do, Vranich is the only developer who would and could have such a back-and-forth with the city if he stands to benefit (and he does). If the city sees the future OLT cases as a threat to its ability to control development, they might be willing to make concessions for the devil they know rather than the devil they don’t. In the process, Vranich gets to build taller than anyone else. Woop woop.

Of course, the city could conceivably just be backed into a corner between the neighbourhood association and the height limit. But I don’t think that would be enough- the city has pressed developers (particularly Vrancor) on height asks before, and this doesn’t strike me as a very agreeable alternative for the neighbours anyhow. As with previous limit-busters, this is added pressure upon the city. Except now, The OLT looms closer than it ever has. the question is what outcome is desired by applying it at this time.
 
Crazy that when these Market St buildings are done and LRT is running 10 years from now, the Hampton Hotel will still be under construction, and the neighbouring apartment tower will have played leapfrog with Good Shepherd Square!

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To be clear the Shadow Dwellers (SD) and the neighbourhood association are not the same thing. I have been volunteering with the Strathcona Community Council (SCC) over the years, and the closest thing to a position issued on any Vrancor project was a letter in 2020 urging the city to uphold its secondary plan. This was in response to the hotel and apartment building now underway. The SD on the other hand was formed specifically to oppose Vrancor's plans in Strathcona. It is led by one passionate resident for which this development is literally in his backyard.
 
I've rarely seen a developer build such inferior projects, both interior and exterior, as consistently as Vrancor. It's wild how they still dominate the industry in Hamilton, despite Hamilton's proximity to Toronto's gargantuan development community.
 
christiesplits said:
I've rarely seen a developer build such inferior projects, both interior and exterior, as consistently as Vrancor. It's wild how they still dominate the industry in Hamilton, despite Hamilton's proximity to Toronto's gargantuan development community.
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It's because the Toronto developers need to compete with his developments which take up a ton of the demand. The city really needs better guidelines that force parking underground like in most cities which levels the playing field a bit like in this development where it's just a mishmash. The city also needs to work better with developers to build better site plans.

Vrancor just pops in, does a crappy site plan, surface parking, says it's 10 storeys, then loljk now it's 25. Legitimate, respectable developers have to compete with that.

In addition, Hamilton is just a smaller market than Toronto. London and KW have similar Walmart brand developers who build crap.
 
rents are lower so it's harder to be profitable in Hamilton. For years Vranich would play games to get his hard costs as low as possible and that was the only way to make money in the Hamilton market. nobody else wanted to play those games, so it was left to Vranich.

Rents in Hamilton have shot up the last few years so it's now easier for projects to work financially. We are seeing other developers enter the market now as a result - Slate, Empire, Emblem, Lamb, BentallGreenOak, etc.

ultimately it comes down to who owns the land as well. A lot of the land in the downtown is owned by a couple of long-standing Hamilton developers, including Vranich.
 
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