Toronto Ïce Condominiums at York Centre | 234.07m | 67s | Lanterra | a—A

grey said:
Yeah, people have just flat-out stopped buying condos, and now developers can't make any money building condos anymore. This project is a horrible idea and is destined to fail, just like L Tower, Fashion House, Market Wharf, Pier 27, and at least a dozen other examples that completely destroy your post.
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What do you mean by fail? All those condos you listed have sold extremely well... 50+ % in matter of a week or two... The market is cooling off, but at different rates in different areas.

That said... I think ICE is going to be over priced (though it will still have very strong sales) ... Units start at low 200s (about 230K is my guess) ... and that would be for 400sq ft studio... one bedrooms probably around 280 and that doesn't include parking... probably not even an option with those units... Anybody else have any other predictions?
 
By his comment, it's clear grey's tongue is planted firmly in cheek.


Anybody else have any other predictions?
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It'll sell - maybe not as fast as in the past - but it'll sell.
 
Hydrogen said:
By his comment, it's clear grey's tongue is planted firmly in cheek.




It'll sell - maybe not as fast as in the past - but it'll sell.
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Purchasers and investers will always buy condos in these icon buildings like Aura,L Tower,Ice,Signature
There tall there sleek and there is always a market for people looking to live somewhere different from the rest.
By this time next year i estimate that all four of these projects will have had its ground breaking.I also would not be surprised that a couple of those fancy new projects proposed for the clubland area sold out and ready to go.
 
scarberiankhatru said:
Any area where master-planned condos + amenities + landscaping + etc. (as opposed to small/individual infill condo sites) disproportionally dictate an area's appearance is a condo zone.
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This is not a 'condo zone', it is a site for mixed-use development, one that includes business and commercial as major components. The York/Bremner area is also not a 'condo 'zone', it is an emerging mixed-use area. Perhaps if you were to dispense with the trivial labels your arguments wouldn't be so sophistic.

scarberiankhatru said:
At least Ice's parkette amenity seems to be fully open to the public and not placed behind a fence or on top of the podium like so many other condos.
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This issue at hand here is land use for this specific site in this specific location of the city. As others have identified before this site affords an ideal continuation southward of the Union Station/financial district areas, and although many are in favour of including some degree of residential, City Place 'condo zone'-type usage is not ideal here.


scarberiankhatru said:
They also warranted a "Spot-frick'n-on"...:)
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Whatever makes you happy:rolleyes:
 
Tewder said:
This is not a 'condo zone', it is a site for mixed-use development, one that includes business and commercial as major components. The York/Bremner area is also not a 'condo 'zone', it is an emerging mixed-use area. Perhaps if you were to dispense with the trivial labels your arguments wouldn't be so sophistic.
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Nope, the raillands area is a condo zone, where the master-plan reigns supreme on most sites. The south side of Bremner has three mostly residential blocks in a row, for example...that's three blocks of pure point tower-, green glass-, amenities requirements-era condo zone. You say it's not a condo zone yet you worry about it becoming more condo zone-ish.

Tewder said:
This issue at hand here is land use for this specific site in this specific location of the city. As others have identified before this site affords an ideal continuation southward of the Union Station/financial district areas, and although many are in favour of including some degree of residential, City Place 'condo zone'-type usage is not ideal here.
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And, suddenly, the issues return to how to best extend the financial district...it's not like I'm going to disagree with that as what these blocks could have been! That bird has flown, though, and the reality is a half-dozen master-planned blocks. I'll say it again for your sake: the at-grade parkette on the site's secondary street frontage and assorted retail under the swiss cheese canopy is one of the better possible 'podium' outcomes.
 
scarberiankhatru said:
Nope, the raillands area is a condo zone, where the master-plan reigns supreme on most sites. The south side of Bremner has three mostly residential blocks in a row, for example...that's three blocks of pure point tower-, green glass-, amenities requirements-era condo zone. You say it's not a condo zone yet you worry about it becoming more condo zone-ish.

And, suddenly, the issues return to how to best extend the financial district...it's not like I'm going to disagree with that as what these blocks could have been! That bird has flown, though, and the reality is a half-dozen master-planned blocks. I'll say it again for your sake: the at-grade parkette on the site's secondary street frontage and assorted retail under the swiss cheese canopy is one of the better possible 'podium' outcomes.
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I would disagree that York Bremner is a condo zone; Railway Lands West Secondary Plan (aka City Place) were to be residential, but Railway Lands East Secondary Plan is clearly intended to be a mixed use zone that includes offices, retail, and residential (as a 'component' but not as a single entity).

Keeping it mind ICE condos is not a done deal, its not approved and the bird has not flown ... there are clear site-specific Official Plan policies that apply to these lands that intend 0% residential, to amend it from 0% to more 60% residential will be a difficult process. I am truly hopefully a higher proportion of office space will be retained on this site to ensure future expansion of the downtown office core south of the railway ... Telus tower, office proposal @ 18 York, and the office / retail components in Maple Leaf Square are a good start, and let's keep it that way

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Of course it's a condo zone, and a damned fine condo zone it is too - stretching all the way from Front to the Gardiner, from the dome to Bathurst.
 
Solaris said:
Keeping it mind ICE condos is not a done deal, its not approved and the bird has not flown
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I'd like to see this lot used strictly for commercial... There is plenty of residential along Queens Quay and to the N, E and W... Having office towers connected directly to GO and TTC increases ridership... and everbody will benefit, drivers, commuters, tax payers and the enviroment (summer air quality)
 
It does seem like the most logical place for expansion of the financial district.
 
How about leaving Ice Condos as per the plan (including office tower) and demolish Infinity* and designate that land strictly as commercial. North of Bremner will be 18 York, and potentially a hotel/office tower on the Fairmont lands (between 18 York property and Simcoe St.) It will all be connected to PATH and (the formerly known as) 151 Front St.

* personal preference
 
marcus_a_j said:
How about leaving Ice Condos as per the plan (including office tower) and demolish Infinity*
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I'll be the first one to sign that petition... but buying out Infinity at today's prices is not feasible... What we can do is maybe petition the city to stop phase 3 and 4 and rezone it as commerical... Anybody know who to make an online petition?
 
A few people does not a petition make. The city changing the zoning on Infinity Phases 3 and 4 does a losing OMB case make. Oh yeah, and a lawsuit for the city. CGM, you might as well pony up the couple hundred million for the developer if you're going to get the ball rolling.

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Solaris said:
I would disagree that York Bremner is a condo zone; Railway Lands West Secondary Plan (aka City Place) were to be residential, but Railway Lands East Secondary Plan is clearly intended to be a mixed use zone that includes offices, retail, and residential (as a 'component' but not as a single entity).

Keeping it mind ICE condos is not a done deal, its not approved and the bird has not flown ... there are clear site-specific Official Plan policies that apply to these lands that intend 0% residential, to amend it from 0% to more 60% residential will be a difficult process. I am truly hopefully a higher proportion of office space will be retained on this site to ensure future expansion of the downtown office core south of the railway ... Telus tower, office proposal @ 18 York, and the office / retail components in Maple Leaf Square are a good start, and let's keep it that way
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I agree. I believe the future vibrancy of this area will depend on the City's and developer's ability to truly transform the lands to a mixed use community, with retail commercial and office uses as predominate uses and residential as a component use.

Although the idea of tall towers for predominately residential use do seem at first glance an attractive one, and one that can be more readily envisioned and sold to the market from the developer, I think there are merits in the OP that these mixed use areas not be dminished. My worry now, upon knowing that this is a mixed use area, is how the applicants will interpret the word
'component' if it gets to the OMB.

Plus I don't think the City have much to stand on at the OMB, its technically not an 'employment land conversion', so it will not have to go through a conversion study, its requesting a change to increase the residential component of a site that is currently designated Mixed Use. As long as the applicants can prove that its proposal is good planning, it will probably go in ICE's favour.
 
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