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Too Many Condos?

I don't live in Markham and I'm not really familiar with the area, so this could be totally off base, but if they are successful, the province should support that kind of planning with big projects to link it with the go-train and maybe extend the TTC subway there. I don't know. If they can do it with vaughan which has nothing... they should do it with markham which seem to have a much better plan and many more companies.

Expanding TTC to extend out to 905 really isn't a good idea. They should put the money to expand the DRL or update the Yonge line with better and frequent trains and larger platforms. Toronto is building a lot of office spaces downtown. Of course, there are more residential going up than office space, but that's expected. Residential space absorbs faster than office space. If you extend office to 905, what about the ones in Toronto who lack better transit like LRT or tains rather than depending on crowded buses. Another issue is with the overcrowding on the Yonge line. If you keep extending it so more people can get to 416 from 905, what's being done to get rid of the already congested Yonge line. It's just going to get worse and worse if more people get on it. You need to either increase service so it comes more frequently or longer trains to contain more people or newer ones so they're connected and people can move around from one cab to another. Or create a DRL so it off loads people going east or west so they don't compete with people heading north.
 
How about stopping the subway where it is - in the 416, Big mistake what is happening with Vaughan which does have nothing except Wonderland in the Summer which sucks with the long line-ups. They should go to Disneyworld to see how to do it right.
 
Funding issues aside, I think it makes sense to extend the subway up to highway 7 where possible. Yes, Steeles might be the official boundary, but 7 is only one major street above. And the way the GTA has worked out, highway 7 is where a lot of the development is and scheduled to be. It is where rapid transit is in the 905 as far as east-west goes. So as a GTA wide initiative, I think it makes sense to extend the subway up to both vaughan and markham.

I definitely think any extension should share funding somehow with metrolinx or the respective 905 communities.

So that more people will move to Markham and Vaughan and commute to downtown Toronto every day? Not a wise idea.
Yes, you can say it is already happening, but the city should not encourage it. Intead, it should discourage it. Provide more public transit and amenities in the cit - particularly in inner 416 area, not even suburbs like York/Etobicoke/Scarbrough/North York. Make it more attractive for people to live closer to the urban core and stop expanding either the Spadina or Yonge line.

When you expand Yonge to Steeles, people start living a bit north of Steeles; when you extend it to Highway 7, people start to settle north of highway 7. The further subways goes, a bit even further people live. What's the end of that? We are supposed to build a dense "real" city, not a Toronto with increasingly expanding suburbs. When it is time consuming and expensive to live that far, people start to loathe the ldea of sprawling.
 
To be so downtown focused and thinking everyone should live the downtown lifestyle... well... now we see why Rob Ford was elected :p

er....downtown didn't elect ford. He had the lowest polling. The outer 416 elected him.
 
Funding issues aside, I think it makes sense to extend the subway up to highway 7 where possible. Yes, Steeles might be the official boundary, but 7 is only one major street above. .
Ya, and then there is 1 more major street above 7 and then 1 more above that and then ...... Where does it stop? It just encourages people to move further north, saying to themselves they are a short drive to the subway. Make those cities build their own subways. And I am sure I will see ...well Vaughan is paying a portion....the line is only getting built because of Sorbara and his real estate holdings and his developer friends, not because it makes sense to do so, especially for the City of Toronto.
 
Probably a miscommunication here. I know Ford was elected from the outer 416. That's why Rob Ford was elected. Because people saw Miller and others as pushing the downtown only vision for Toronto. Which seems very prevalent here as well.

And look where it got them. A lot of the LRT lines got canned and all the money is getting directed to the subway along Sheppard. Everyone loses out except people living along Sheppard. Miller at least was spreading out the transit so everyone would get a better transport system rather than focusing all resources on one line.
 
The problem I see is that there seems to be endless amount of private money for condos (esp high-end) but no money for public transit..I mean don't these condo developers pay a fee to the city? Those fees should be tripled or quadrupled or whatever and that money the city gets should go towards public transit..
 
"It was more about a vision for a city that doesn't exist (walkable street, live and work communities...)"

Oh, such communities do exist scamper...you just have to be a downtown elitist to afford them now ;).
 
"It was more about a vision for a city that doesn't exist (walkable street, live and work communities...)"

Oh, such communities do exist scamper...you just have to be a downtown elitist to afford them now ;).

Why do you have to be an elitist to afford downtown? Most people, including me, choose downtown by sacrificing space. many of those can't afford downtown simply because they want their single detached dream house with family room, livingroom, basement, rec-room, guest bedroom, power room, mud room (not idea what that is), study, large kitchen, as well as a large yard in the wrong assumption that the moment you have a child, you can't live in condos any longer.

I am single now, and living in a 600sf condo. When I get married, I will still live here. If I have a child, maybe I move to a 800sf two bed room condo, which is really not that more expensive than those 2000sf detached houses in Markham or Vaughan, maybe cheaper. We have the convenience of being close to everything, but at the cost of much smaller space. Do you really have to be wealthy to afford downtown? I don't think so. You just can't have city convenience as well as large space at the same time, if you are not rich.
 
Ya, and then there is 1 more major street above 7 and then 1 more above that and then ...... Where does it stop? It just encourages people to move further north, saying to themselves they are a short drive to the subway. Make those cities build their own subways. And I am sure I will see ...well Vaughan is paying a portion....the line is only getting built because of Sorbara and his real estate holdings and his developer friends, not because it makes sense to do so, especially for the City of Toronto.
http://stevemunro.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/20002009SubsidySummary.pdf

You write as someone who has no clue in how the TTC is funded. If Toronto paid for the total costs of the TTC you would have a point.
 
You write as someone who has no clue in how the TTC is funded. If Toronto paid for the total costs of the TTC you would have a point.

I know exactly how it is funded and I know its operational funding comes mostly from the farebox, then the city and nothing from the province

METROPOLITAN TORONTO AND THE CAR CHANGE THE PICTURE
The TTC continued to make an operating profit until 1972 when, under political pressure from the suburban majority on council, the TTC eliminated its fare zone system which previously obliged suburban residents to pay an additional fare. By the late 1980s, the annual cost of keeping the TTC afloat was now up to a quarter of a billion dollars of taxpayers’ money, although at 32% of all revenues, this was the lowest subsidy required of any city in North America.

FLAT FARE VERSUS FARE BY DISTANCE
In 1921, one of the goals of the City of Toronto in establishing the Toronto Transportation Commission was enabling Toronto residents to travel throughout the city on a single fare, regardless of the length of the trip. Transfers between routes were free. The city was compact enough, and ridership high enough, that the Commission was able to perform this service while making back most of its costs (operating and capital expenses) from the farebox.

But the fact remained that public transit ran most profitably when people used it to take short trips. On routes where there was a good cycling of passengers on and off at each stop, each vehicle ended up carrying far more passengers enroute, and this efficiency covered expenses well. But as Toronto’s suburban growth spilled out beyond the city’s boundaries, commutes began to lengthen. This meant transit vehicles had to travel farther to carry the same number of passengers. There was less cycling of passengers on and off at each stop. Revenues decreased and expenses increased.

As the suburbs around Toronto were not part of the city proper, City Council had no qualms of charging these passengers extra to cover the extra expenses, or even imposing fare zones so that revenues per trip more closely matched the costs per trip, but after 1954, the suburban municipalities around Toronto sat with Toronto on Metro council. Also, the pace of urban sprawl increased. The densities of the suburbs decreased, meaning that public transit could no longer efficiently serve the outer suburbs and make back its costs. At least, not without a fare system that recognized the higher costs of longer commutes.

The zone fare system, while not perfect, at least managed to do this, but it was unpopular with suburban residents and their politicians who felt that all residents within Metropolitan Toronto should be covered under the same fare, regardless of the distance travelled. In the 1960s, debates over TTC fares and service on Metro council were often rancorous. At one point, the boroughs of North York and Etobicoke went to court to overturn Metropolitan Toronto’s subsidy of the TTC, unless Metro Council acceded to their demands for improved service.

When the province of Ontario reorganized Metropolitan Toronto in 1967, it gave the suburban municipalities surrounding Toronto a majority of seats on council, reflecting the increase in their population growth, and the suburban view of public transit as a subsidized public service rather than a utility that paid its own way, won out. On January 1, 1973, the two zone fare system within Metropolitan Toronto was abolished, and the zone fares outside of Metropolitan Toronto’s boundaries were combined into one. The TTC had now become wholly dependent on government operating subsidies to balance the books.

THE ESTABLISHMENT OF SUBURBAN TRANSIT AGENCIES
Earlier this decade, Mississauga Transit asked the TTC to extend the 32 Eglinton West bus into the Airport Corporate Centre northwest of the Eglinton/Renforth intersection, in the City of Mississauga. It asked that only the regular TTC fare be charged, and paid for any operating deficit the extension incurred. It later decided that this was too costly and asked the TTC to charge the Mississauga Transit fare west of Explorer Road, which was done effective January 4, 2004. In exchange for the fare increase, passengers on the route could transfer to connecting Mississauga Transit buses.

THE RIDERSHIP GROWTH STRATEGY, THE GREATER TORONTO TRANSIT AUTHORITY AND THE SMART CARD DEBATE
This has sparked a renewed debate about fare management among the transit systems. Although some suburban politicians, like the late mayor of Vaughan, Lorna Jackson, have suggested that the Greater Toronto Area be covered by a single fare, others have pointed out that the deficits that this would unleash, with travel from Square One to the Scarborough Town Centre costing as little as a trip from the Eaton Centre to the Exhibition, would bankrupt any transit organization and weigh it down with subsidies. It is generally agreed that a fare by distance scheme would have to be applied.

One of the top priorities of the Greater Toronto Transit Authority is to create a smart card fare system that would use electronic cards to tailor the amount paid by passengers to the distance travelled. The Toronto Transit Commission has been reluctant to come on board, however. As it is still catching up on the service cutbacks of the 1990s, it fears that the priorities of the GTTA is towards various schemes to benefit suburban riders, and that insufficient funding will be applied to bring services in the core up to adequate levels. The TTC notes that its capital requirements are so much larger than any of the surrounding agencies, and that changing its decades-old gravity-based fare collection system could be very costly — the equivalent of several buses and streetcars that would already be full of passengers were they operating now.

http://transit.toronto.on.ca/spare/0021.shtml
 
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You say to let other cities build thier own subways yet ignore the fact that Toronto does not itself pay for its subway.
 
kkgg7, my post was just truth infused with humour.

Here is another (assuming you are male looking to marry a female): You might be OK living in a 600 sqft condo or bringing up children in a two bedroom but she won't be ;) so chances are your going to buy that house afterall or you'll never hear the end of it!
 
kkgg7, my post was just truth infused with humour.

Here is another (assuming you are male looking to marry a female): You might be OK living in a 600 sqft condo or bringing up children in a two bedroom but she won't be ;) so chances are your going to buy that house afterall or you'll never hear the end of it!

Assuming all women think alike.
My gf prefers a 2-bedroom condo over a 4 bedroom house not because of the convenience, although that plays a role, but mainly because half of the 4-bedroom house will never be used but will still have to cleaned and maintained every other week.
I see my parents who spend half a Saturday to clean up their 4-bedroom home. Starting at 9am and finishing at 4pm. That leaves them with no shopping time because the stores in Montreal close at 5pm. They're also so tired from the cleaning that they go to bed by 9pm. Same story for my sister and her family.

From what i've noticed from most women between the 25-35 age, they prefer the smaller condo to the larger home more and more nowadays.
 

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