Time To Accelerate Freeway Teardowns?

[Lone Primate]

What has this to do with jobs here?

I have no idea how this relates to my point.

Yes, I think we've come to the crux of the matter here. I couldn't put it any better than you just did in those two lines.

You tell me this then?

Why do you think Toronto should build and fund transportation infrastructure for free for cars who are travelling from Newmarket to Mississauga?

Sure. There are any number of reasons.

First and foremost: to a great extent, even municipal infrastructure is paid for by the province. That means people in Newmarket and Mississauga paid for it. You may LIVE in Toronto at the moment (presumably), but you don't OWN it by dint of happening to reside here. A city is a communal entity and the enterprise of the nation. Every Canadian has every bit as much right to be in, live in, work in, and transit in and through Toronto as you do... just as you do with regard to wherever they might happen to live. I would have thought this would be self-evident but the question being asked, the fundamentals need to be explained, I suppose.

Secondly, even if this weren't the case, how, exactly, are we supposed to determine who's coming from Newmarket to Dixie Road, and who's coming from Newmarket to Kipling Avenue -- and what real difference does it make? How fine do these NIMBYistic distinctions get? Are you an interloper if you're on the streets of the people in Scarborough, or Rexdale, or the Annex? What gives you the presumed right to wander the streets a few blocks over? (Before you laugh, these are REAL questions in some parts of New York, so be careful what you wish for.)

Finally, providing a means for people to get where they need to go in a timely fashion facilitates much of what we take for granted in a modern society: cheaper goods, centralized places of labour and commerce, social institutions and the cultural opportunities they provide...

Honest to God, the baseless assumptions of some people here that they have entitlements to the things that they happen to see when they look out their window and the paleolithic idea that anyone over the next hill is up to no good or wants to somehow deprive them of something is truly distressing. It seems all the more incredible that our civilization has managed to get as far as it has.

 

[nfitz]

Yes, I think we've come to the crux of the matter here. I couldn't put it any better than you just did in those two lines.

You probably could have, because I have absolutely no idea what you are saying.

My whole point is simply that the City shouldn't be responsible for providing transport infrastructure for people who neither are going from, or to, Toronto.

Of course there is a requirement for the City to provide infrastructure for those travelling within the city; which is why I have been advocating that they maintain the Gardiner in some form or another.

 

[Lone Primate]

My whole point is simply that the City shouldn't be responsible for providing transport infrastructure for people who neither are going from, or to, Toronto.

Yes, I KNOW that; you've repeated it ad nauseam, and your misapprehensions on several points to do with it have been pointed out by several people now. PLEASE READ.

 

[nfitz]

Yes, I KNOW that; you've repeated it ad nauseam, and your misapprehensions on several points to do with it have been pointed out by several people now. PLEASE READ.

I have read what you wrote; but I don't understand it ... we're talking about removing the Gardiner, and you are talking about NIMBYs, Gods, and human rights.

Perhaps if you could get down to the core of your case - I have no idea if you agree or disagree with my assertion that the Gardiner should be kept.

 

[Electrify]

1. Lone Primate, I'm not gay, but I love you

2. niftz, Just a thought, but I'd guess many people who are taking the Gardiner/DVP between Halton and York are headed to destinations within downtown Toronto. Though it is the more scenic route, the 401 or 407 would probably be faster during most times of day. Also, you are assuming that people in Etobicoke don't use the Gardiner to get downtown, or even other destinations in Toronto. Last time I checked, there were plenty of driveways with multiple cars in them in all parts of the 416, including the inner-city.

Finally, it is not as if other municipalities don't have problems with others using infrastructure. There are plenty of super-wide arterials and highways in other municipalities which are used by people of other origins. Between Leslie and Keele, Highway 7 is a mini-highway with few traffic lights and high speed limits, but is everyone using it going to destinations in York Region? People coming from the north could use it as an alternative to the 407 and 401 to get from the 400 to the 404 heading into Toronto. Why should York Region tax dollars be used to subsidize these drivers?

 

[Dan416]

It's obvious Torontonians use the Gardiner and DVP. What percentage of the drivers on the Gardiner/DVP originate from Toronto proper is pretty irrelevant.