Time and Space Condos (Pemberton) - Real Estate -

dainvinci said:
Just FYI, here is a vague response from T&S admin when I asked about my dates "Currently, your date remains as April 12th, however, unfortunately, I can’t confirm or deny this date will remain as we have been experiencing some delays. If your suite is affected by these delays, you will be advised at least 10 days prior to your occupancy date. We started occupancies in early January and have reached the 15th floor to date.

If it is not delayed, your PDI will take shortly before the April date, if it is extended, it will be shortly before the new date".

Will let you know if I get more updates.
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I just received notice that my delayed occupancy will be April 22, almost 6 weeks after my firm of March 12. Building A, floor 23
 
Has anyone's units actually received a final closing date? They said estimated to be in April for 121 lower sherbourne, but at this point it seems like even that's unlikely...
 
cgg77 said:
Has anyone's units actually received a final closing date? They said estimated to be in April for 121 lower sherbourne, but at this point it seems like even that's unlikely...
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Good evening, all. I moved into Building C, 19th floor (level 18) last November, and I keep regular personal contact with Pemberton's Customer Care team and the Property Management Team (Crossbridges CS). As of today, they told me that they are actively occupying the 17th floor (Level 16) of both Building B (135 Lower Sherbourne St) and Building A (70 Princess St).
 
cgg77 said:
Has anyone's units actually received a final closing date? They said estimated to be in April for 121 lower sherbourne, but at this point it seems like even that's unlikely...
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I should add that Final Closure will take place for all four buildings at the same time. However, they are not giving us any solid hints yet as to when that could take place.
 
dainvinci said:
Given that your firm occupancy date has moved, are you not entitled for delayed occupancy compensation?
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You best discuss this topic with your lawyer. My occupancy was delayed FOUR times (November/2020, July/2023, August/2023 and finally November/2023). I sold my house in August/2023, but my lawyer doubts that I will be eligible for anything more than token compensation. Pemberton hedged their bets very well in the sales contract wording.
 
CDH said:
You best discuss this topic with your lawyer. My occupancy was delayed FOUR times (November/2020, July/2023, August/2023 and finally November/2023). I sold my house in August/2023, but my lawyer doubts that I will be eligible for anything more than token compensation. Pemberton hedged their bets very well in the sales contract wording.
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Someone more knowledgeable can chime in. My understanding is tentative occupancy dates could be moved without penalties as long as the builder provided notices in writings (including emails as well) within 90 days, as spelt out in Tarion. COVID was used as a reason for unavoidable delays until further notice back then for delayed tentative occupancy dates. I would imagine the firm occupancy date may not be moved or else compensation may be sought.
 
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ALBI said:
Hi Kama. Thanks for sharing this. I am an assignee to a unit and plan to pay in full to save on the interest cost during occupancy. It looks like it is our right to pay in full at occupancy according to the Condominium Act. What was the reason that Pemberton quoted to reject your proposal? Where is the 10-day cooling period written?
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I'm not sure its a good idea to prepay ... what rights would you have after you have paid off the condo prior to registration? And what if it doesnt register for some reason? Did you consult with a lawyer as I suspect your lawyer will raise some flags. We had thought of going along same route but decided not to as to protect ourselves.
 
I talked to my lawyer about this - The 10-day cooling period is written in the Condo Act (it's online and you can search for keyword there to read that section yourself), so if you don't make the request to change the payment structure outlined in APS during that timeframe then you are out of luck, they won't let you do it anyways even if the contract does not explicitly say this is the case. Note that most builders WOULD at least let you pay down some more at the interim occupancy to reduce some interest (since the condo act only really talks about paying down in full as the right within that timeframe and doesn't talk about paying just a certain extra amount, so the rest just comes down to the developers if they are nice enough and willing to work with you and let you do this).

If someone decides to pay in full or additional amount, the money will just be held in the trust so Pemberton won't get it anyways until final closing. This is the case with condos, not sure about prebuilt freeholds. They do not seem to be in a rush to build more buildings given the high interest rate these days (33 yorkville is still a big pit lol), so no rush for closing these buildings since what are they going to do with these money? And my conspiracy theory tells me that the occupancy fee people are paying is probably more than the loan they actually took on to build these places, so they are somehow netting income for doing this, but again no proof from me, just my angry thoughts about this developer in general after witnessing the sad state of my condo during PDI.
 
SevenPlus said:
I talked to my lawyer about this - The 10-day cooling period is written in the Condo Act (it's online and you can search for keyword there to read that section yourself), so if you don't make the request to change the payment structure outlined in APS during that timeframe then you are out of luck, they won't let you do it anyways even if the contract does not explicitly say this is the case. Note that most builders WOULD at least let you pay down some more at the interim occupancy to reduce some interest (since the condo act only really talks about paying down in full as the right within that timeframe and doesn't talk about paying just a certain extra amount, so the rest just comes down to the developers if they are nice enough and willing to work with you and let you do this).

If someone decides to pay in full or additional amount, the money will just be held in the trust so Pemberton won't get it anyways until final closing. This is the case with condos, not sure about prebuilt freeholds. They do not seem to be in a rush to build more buildings given the high interest rate these days (33 yorkville is still a big pit lol), so no rush for closing these buildings since what are they going to do with these money? And my conspiracy theory tells me that the occupancy fee people are paying is probably more than the loan they actually took on to build these places, so they are somehow netting income for doing this, but again no proof from me, just my angry thoughts about this developer in general after witnessing the sad state of my condo during PDI.
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This confirms my suspicions as well! We gave them 12 post dated cheques last August, that deadline is fast approaching. If this continues it'll be over a year of money given to these crooks! I can't believe there's no legislation to protect consumers against this
 
cgg77 said:
This confirms my suspicions as well! We gave them 12 post dated cheques last August, that deadline is fast approaching. If this continues it'll be over a year of money given to these crooks! I can't believe there's no legislation to protect consumers against this
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There are lots of legal protections and that is why it is ALWAYS a good idea to have your own lawyer look VERY carefully at the contracts provided by developers. In general I am not keen on lawyers but the developers have theirs (who will write contracts that favour their paymasters) so you need your own to ensure YOUR interests are protected.
 
CDH said:
I should add that Final Closure will take place for all four buildings at the same time. However, they are not giving us any solid hints yet as to when that could take place.
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DSC said:
There are lots of legal protections and that is why it is ALWAYS a good idea to have your own lawyer look VERY carefully at the contracts provided by developers. In general I am not keen on lawyers but the developers have theirs (who will write contracts that favour their paymasters) so you need your own to ensure YOUR interests are protected.
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There are no legal 'protections' for occupancy fees from what I'm aware of and our lawyers (he hinted that he absolutely hated preconstructions but the price at the time seemed worth it) have always told us there's no way around it, our relatives have closed a lot of units from other builders in the past, but it's the first time we've ever witnessed it dragged final closing on this long. With other developers some may be more cash strapped and would want to close asap, while others don't want their reputation tarnished and will do so within reasonable timeframe. Seems like Pemberton cares about neither despite having the lady at our PDI and first occupancy signing tell us 'it shouldn't take more than 12 months'
 
cgg77 said:
There are no legal 'protections' for occupancy fees from what I'm aware of and our lawyers (he hinted that he absolutely hated preconstructions but the price at the time seemed worth it) have always told us there's no way around it, our relatives have closed a lot of units from other builders in the past, but it's the first time we've ever witnessed it dragged final closing on this long. With other developers some may be more cash strapped and would want to close asap, while others don't want their reputation tarnished and will do so within reasonable timeframe. Seems like Pemberton cares about neither despite having the lady at our PDI and first occupancy signing tell us 'it shouldn't take more than 12 months'
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As they say 'caveat emptor"
 
At the end of the day I really don't think having lawyers reviewing the contract helps that much, unless the buyer is a first time buyer who has no idea what's going on. Most of the terms/clauses in the APS are standard (especially with bigger builders like Pemberton, Tridel etc.) and the lawyers won't be able to do much anyways (developmental charge cap is something a developer may intentionally miss from what I have heard, but these sort of information is easily looked up online these days). Also, most people who buy condos are investors (so the less deposits they have to pay, the better anyways) and some of them will never step in the condo once, so in general they don't really care as long as the unit has low maintenance fee and can be rented out at a good price.

As far as occupancy length goes, this is one thing the government really has to look into at some point. It's quite obvious the builders are taking advantage of this (perhaps not just limited to Pemberton specifically), and to me it is unacceptable to ask people to take occupancy if the building is still basically a full-fledged construction site. Also, if a condo is missing critical items such as shower doors and appliances, how can an occupancy permit even be issued in the first place? Isn't there some sort of requirement/criteria that needs to be met in order for the condo to be considered 'livable'?
 
SevenPlus said:
At the end of the day I really don't think having lawyers reviewing the contract helps that much, unless the buyer is a first time buyer who has no idea what's going on. Most of the terms/clauses in the APS are standard (especially with bigger builders like Pemberton, Tridel etc.) and the lawyers won't be able to do much anyways (developmental charge cap is something a developer may intentionally miss from what I have heard, but these sort of information is easily looked up online these days). Also, most people who buy condos are investors (so the less deposits they have to pay, the better anyways) and some of them will never step in the condo once, so in general they don't really care as long as the unit has low maintenance fee and can be rented out at a good price.

As far as occupancy length goes, this is one thing the government really has to look into at some point. It's quite obvious the builders are taking advantage of this (perhaps not just limited to Pemberton specifically), and to me it is unacceptable to ask people to take occupancy if the building is still basically a full-fledged construction site. Also, if a condo is missing critical items such as shower doors and appliances, how can an occupancy permit even be issued in the first place? Isn't there some sort of requirement/criteria that needs to be met in order for the condo to be considered 'livable'?
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From many posts on this and other threads on UT it is clear to me that many 'first time buyers' really "have no idea of what is going on". Of course, not everyone needs a lawyer but they ARE useful for MANY people - and, no, I am not a lawyer myself!
 
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