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The Tenor (10 Dundas St E, Ent Prop Trust, 10s, Baldwin & Franklin)

  • Thread starter billy corgan19982
  • Start date
MetroMan said:
You’ve ignored everything I said. ??‍♂️

I offered viable solutions to those complaints.

It doesn’t matter much where the theatres themselves are. The problem is that the beginning of the movie theatre experience is 4 floors up, out of view. That’s why I suggest turning the main, street level lobby into the theatre lobby so it’s right off the street. The sidewalk presence should be of movie posters, making it clear that this is a movie theatre. Cineplex is the anchor tenant but it doesn’t act like one.

What makes this building feel like a mess is that’s it’s a mishmash of cheap uses — a property management failure. I offered a solution to that as well. Consolidate the spaces into restaurants that have their own decor and invest in their own appearances and finishes.

Restaurants are popular here, regardless of your own personal taste. This is above all, a place that caters to tourists. Jack Astor’s and Milestones are representative of that.

The circulation through the building can be fixed by making all the escalators visible. The down escalator is hidden. It’s actually an easy fix: widen the escalator well.

The odd shapes of the layout are actually a desirable trait in restaurants. The building is made for it. As long as the central circulation space is consistent throughout all the floors, and it is, then the layout of the restaurants themselves doesn’t matter.

As for the exterior wall of ads, well that’s what it was built for. I have no issue with it in this part of the city. I too didn’t like the framing of the ads but they’ve finally gone and fixed most of it by removing the clutter of ads on the corner and are replacing it with one large video billboard.

We’ve all seen apparently irredeemable spaces that when reimagined through interior design and finishes become beautiful. 10 Dundas East is a mess but one that can be fixed with better tenant choices and strengthening its identity as an entertainment building.
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I didn't fail to read or consider your comments.

Disagreement on culinary tolerances aside.........

I would argue that the cinema, if retained at the current level requires more direct access.

That's not just visibility. It's a maximum of 2 escalators from street to cinema. That requires enormous reorganization at great expense.

I don't disagree that restaurants would be a preferred use of the 2nd floor vs Winners.

But that doesn't exactly redeem the building, it makes the best of a bad situation.

The main floor retail is poorly laid out as well; and the lobby poorly situated.

Simply put the amount of work and $$ that needs to go into fixing it all seems excessive when the opportunity exists to start over.

Treating the block cohesively (yet, a la Mirvish with articulation and variety) would serve the site better.

You have an ugly building, with a parking garage (Ryerson), a recycled HMV store (now would-be pot palace), and a vacant lot that used to be a nice heritage property.

All at what should be a signature intersection in our City.

Why spend 20M making it less bad, when you can do it all properly instead?
 
Northern Light said:
I didn't fail to read or consider your comments.

Disagreement on culinary tolerances aside.........

I would argue that the cinema, if retained at the current level requires more direct access.

That's not just visibility. It's a maximum of 2 escalators from street to cinema. That requires enormous reorganization at great expense.

I don't disagree that restaurants would be a preferred use of the 2nd floor vs Winners.

But that doesn't exactly redeem the building, it makes the best of a bad situation.

The main floor retail is poorly laid out as well; and the lobby poorly situated.

Simply put the amount of work and $$ that needs to go into fixing it all seems excessive when the opportunity exists to start over.

Treating the block cohesively (yet, a la Mirvish with articulation and variety) would serve the site better.

You have an ugly building, with a parking garage (Ryerson), a recycled HMV store (now would-be pot palace), and a vacant lot that used to be a nice heritage property.

All at what should be a signature intersection in our City.

Why spend 20M making it less bad, when you can do it all properly instead?
Click to expand...

HMV isn’t a part of the 10 Dundas East complex. You’re pointing out a Yonge Street issue. Retailers on Yonge haven’t generally been successful because there’s a massive retail black hole between Queen and Dundas.

Again, what I’m proposing isn’t an expensive fix. Tenants finance and build their own spaces. Replacing Winners with a pair of restaurants with their entrances open into the second floor lobby rather than closed off with a wall as Winners is, would improve the central space.

Doing the same for the food court would swap an ugly, cheap open space with restaurants that’d better frame the space, improving the feeling of the common spaces as a result.

That’s not to say that the common spaces don’t need some TLC. Better lighting can go a long way. The cheap yellow lighting and flooring don’t do the interior design any favours. But this isn’t a multi million dollar reorganization. The spaces are exactly where they need to be. It’s their uses that are wrong.

Taking escalators up to the movie theatre isn’t a problem. People take the world’s longest escalator (and often have to walk up the stairs because those escalators are broken) at Scotiabank Theatre. The problem as I’ve pointed out is that the theatre experience starts 4 floors up, out of view. If the the theatre starts at street level, with box office as soon as you walk in and movie posters outside, the intended use of the building is immediately obvious to passers by.

Tearing down the building is a non starter. It’s just not going to happen. Ryerson still owns the garage and they’re not going to give up the classrooms. The same issues that existed when PenEquity came up with Metropolis and the necessary cooperation with Ryerson, still exist. This isn’t a matter of a large developer buying up the entire block like what happened with Honest Eds. Ryerson isn’t selling.
 
We're stuck with it for at least 20 years until it becomes hopelessly outdated and there's impetus on all sides to come up with something better than this sad, clownish structure. In the meantime, what Metroman is proposing is probably the most sensible course of action but given the landlord's track record it's hard to imagine that this building will see any improvement.
 
Blixtein said:
We're stuck with it for at least 20 years until it becomes hopelessly outdated and there's impetus on all sides to come up with something better than this sad, clownish structure. In the meantime, what Metroman is proposing is probably the most sensible course of action but given the landlord's track record it's hard to imagine that this building will see any improvement.
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It’s changed hands at least three times in its short history. I fully expect it to do so again, given the mismanagement. Mistakes like they’ve repeatedly made isn’t sustainable long term and they’ll bail.

I know that Hines was looking at acquiring the property to merge it into Atrium On Bay some years ago. Hines is no longer managing the Atrium but they’d have been a major improvement.

I could also see Cadillac Fairview taking over as they did with The Hudson Bay’s building. The Eaton Centre doesn’t have movie theatres so bringing this building into the mall with better connections into the atrium across the street would make a lot of sense.
 
MetroMan said:
Tearing down the building is a non starter. It’s just not going to happen. Ryerson still owns the garage and they’re not going to give up the classrooms. The same issues that existed when PenEquity came up with Metropolis and the necessary cooperation with Ryerson, still exist. This isn’t a matter of a large developer buying up the entire block like what happened with Honest Eds. Ryerson isn’t selling.
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It should be said that the Ryerson classrooms was a much better idea in theory than in practice.

I'll just say that being in comfortable movie theatre seats with the smell of popcorn surrounding you, at 8am with the most boring professors isn't a productive learning environment.
 
WislaHD said:
The most damning part of this building is that it does not allow access to Dundas Station from the north.
Click to expand...

To come back to this...........This building is connected to Dundas Station at its main/only mezzanine.

I had to think about it for a bit................

But the north end of the Dundas platform is north of this building.

You can see the vents in the sidewalk that are immediately beyond the platform in the tunnel embedded just south of Gould St.

www.google.com

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
www.google.com www.google.com

That would suggest an exit at the extreme north of the platform would come out either in the vacant lot at the corner or the defunct HMV.

Obviously you could put a north exit just a bit further south; though it should be said, that that would only serve the NB platform.

Dundas Stn is too close to the surface to have any pedestrian connection over top of the tracks.

This is why connections between the two directions of travel, at both Dundas and Queen go under the tracks. That would be an expensive add-on.

So while I'd be happy to bury this building for any number of reasons, I'm not sure we can lay that one on the developer here.
 
Northern Light said:
To come back to this...........This building is connected to Dundas Station at its main/only mezzanine.

I had to think about it for a bit................

But the north end of the Dundas platform is north of this building.

You can see the vents in the sidewalk that are immediately beyond the platform in the tunnel embedded just south of Gould St.

www.google.com

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
www.google.com www.google.com

That would suggest an exit at the extreme north of the platform would come out either in the vacant lot at the corner or the defunct HMV.

Obviously you could put a north exit just a bit further south; though it should be said, that that would only serve the NB platform.

Dundas Stn is too close to the surface to have any pedestrian connection over top of the tracks.

This is why connections between the two directions of travel, at both Dundas and Queen go under the tracks. That would be an expensive add-on.

So while I'd be happy to bury this building for any number of reasons, I'm not sure we can lay that one on the developer here.
Click to expand...
Au contraire, you don't need to construct a brand new entrance to the station in order to provide a northern entry and to improve overall access and circulation.

There is an underused entrance to Winners at Yonge Street, between the David's Tea and Chipotle.

That entrance could have been the northern access point to the 10 Dundas concourse and feed into the station entrance. It would likely require more use of escalators but that doesn't seem to be a problem with this building.
 
MetroMan said:
Indeed. That FutureShop was always busy. The only reason they closed it was because BestBuy acquired FutureShop and there was already a nearby BestBuy.
Click to expand...

I found it always dead... which is why I preferred it over Best Buy. I even bough my Macbook there to avoid lines at the Apple Store and Best Buy!
 
Tuscani01 said:
I found it always dead... which is why I preferred it over Best Buy. I even bough my Macbook there to avoid lines at the Apple Store and Best Buy!
Click to expand...

It was quite busy when it first opened - that's around the DVD, followed by HD sales peak. But of course that had come and went, plus they can't compete with Amazon/Netflix/Newegg/Steam anyways.

AoD
 
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AlvinofDiaspar said:
It was quite busy when it first opened - that's around the DVD, followed by HD sales peak. But of course that had come and went, plus they can't compete with Amazon/Netflix/Newegg/Steam anyways.

AoD
Click to expand...

I went there shortly before they closed in order to get headphones. I liked future shop but it was dead at the time of closure. Best Buy rules the roost in the area and other stores really cannot compete.

That said, what they really need there is an outside/inside nightclub where the inside is on the outside and the outside is on the inside. Traffic signs, stop lights on the inside but on the outside you have dancers, couches, etc.
 
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