Tamil Protests downtown

[GraphicMatt]

Callling this "genocide" is quite excessive - that term should be reserved exclusively for circumstances where there is a systematic effort to eliminate an ethnic group - which is absent in this case.

AoD

Good point. Substitute 'slaughter'.

Is it never okay to protest on a highway like the Gardiner? Or is it a sliding scale? Is it okay if the death toll is in the hundreds of thousands? Millions? Is there a line?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

GM:

I would tend to say there is never a good time to protest on a highway - or at any other critical pieces of infrastructure. I mean, can you imagine if they decided to protest at say Bloor-Yonge at the height of the rush? Or all day at track level? Or at a level crossing along any GO lines? This is quite different from doing it at University (which is ok, except for the length of their protest). And quite frankly, the way the protests are conducted, with the focus on maximum disruption and inconvenience just makes others connect their modus operandi to the ruthlessness of LTTE, which is counterproductive to the goals of protesting in the first place - which is to solicit sympathy.

AoD

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

it's not right to block hospital row and storm a highway without notice or at all but i can understand that living in that kinda stress, having relatives and loved ones killed overseas without any hope on the horizon can make people do some fu<ked up things. they're only humans and humans do some pretty messed up things when they're under alot of stress and they feel that the situation is hopeless.

of course they went about it all the wrong way. hopefully they can find a better way to voice their message. drop the flags, don't take sides in a dirty conflict, don't restrict others' right to travel and don't put others and yourselves in harm's way. protests shouldn't also be organized by individuals who are highly emotional either.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Speaking broadly here, saying nothing justifies a protest on public infrastructure is dangerous because obviously SOMETHING does. Protesting is all about the ends justifying the means. If this stunt - which brought serious international media attention to Sri Lanka for the first time in a long time - is effective in setting the wheels in motion for a brokered ceasefire then it was entirely justifiable.

It's unfortunate, because getting stuck in traffic for five hours sucks, but I really take issue with the whole 'Nobody should ever protest on critical public infrastructure' idea because it quickly leads to 'Nobody can protest on public roads' which translates to 'Nobody can protest on public property' which eventually turns into 'Why don't you just protest quietly at home by yourself?'

That said, I AM speaking broadly because I do think the Tamil issue is incredibly complicated by virtue of the LTTE connection, the unique history of Sri Lanka and the fact that it's possible to argue that these people have, in fact, already been heard by the Canadian government.

I more returned to this thread because the argument that a peaceful non-violent protest by fellow Torontonians serves as some kind of indication that multiculturalism doesn't work is so supremely f'ed up that I couldn't let it stand.

 

[gabe]

These stupid morons bringing their babies and young childern onto an expressway in front of armed riot police, luckily there wasn't a stampede.

 

[cdr108]

The shear ignorance of this statement shocks me. A) There are no Indian embassies in Canada; B) There are no embassies at all of any nation in Toronto (as far as I know); C) What on earth has India got to do with this, any more than Canada?

A & B) Fine, the Consulate General Office.
... so protest outside Sri Lankan Consulate General:
http://www.slcg-toronto.com/index.php?option=com_contact&view=contact&id=2&Itemid=63

C) Since Canada has nothing to do with this, quit blocking the roads here.

Frankly, the Tamil protesters probably have more people giving them a FU and associating them all with the terrrorist Tamil Tigers instead of bringing legitimacy to their cause.

 

[Brian69]

On top of the danger they put themselves in the protesters are now going to places that cause maximum disruption to the citizens of Toronto--and threatening to continue doing so. How does this advance their cause in the least? It's making people aware of what's happening in Sri Lanka but I have yet to see more than the odd non-Sri Lankan rallying to the cause in public. Instead, people are becoming increasing angry at the Tamils and just want them to go away. This is poor planning and poor public relations. One cannot say that bad press is better than no press at all when all this is doing is bringing out the worst in everyone and having no effect on Sri Lanka.

Furthermore, the average citizen is more aware of who the Tamil Tigers are than even before and this is making the Tamil cause even less popular. All the cries of genocide (incorrect, as Alvin pointed out) are lost when the flags of a military/terrorist organization are flown aloft in waves. The Tamils have already politicized their protest; they politicized it years ago when they threw their wholehearted support behind the Tigers in the GTA and did so openly.

It's disingenuous to claim this is all about the refugees while chanting out the name of a ruthless leader who has a lot of blood on his hands. The Tamils have continued to conflate the Tigers with the protests and have opened themselves up to criticism on the matter. They wanted people to be educated on the issue and they've succeeded, just not in the way they desired.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

This thread really is horrible. Protesting on the Gardiner and shutting down highways is hardly new. Truck drivers did it last year. As did the Critical Mass cyclist protesters. Several years ago Ontario farmers shut down a whole set of highways in a rolling protest against agricultural policy. No one was calling for mass arrests and deportations after those events, much less implying that the participants somehow aren't "real Canadians".

The Critical Mass Cyclists were idiots to do what they did and the Truck Drivers & Farmers slowed traffic as a form of protest, they didn't have an impromptu highway blockage with young children placed in front presumably acting as shields.
Protests, rally's and marches are as democratic as voting, but what has been happening in the past couple of weeks blocking University Avenue and now the Gardiner has gone too far.
I PVR'd Breakfast Television and an organizer "suggested" that the 400 series highways may be next....
Oh, and hat's off to Toronto's Finest.

 

[kEiThZ]

I don't buy the whole 'what would you do if it was your family' line. There actions have shown they care very little about their relatives. Where was their outrage against the LTTE when the UN detailed the LTTE's human rights abuses. They are rightly outraged about the 400 deaths this weekend by SLA shelling but where's their outrage against the LTTE holding thousands of Tamils as human shields (also a violation of the Laws of war and one which makes the LTTE culpable in the 400 deaths). Where was their outrage when the LTTE broke the last ceasefire and proceeded to build up an air force and a navy? Where was the outrage when the LTTE wiped out other Tamils groups it saw as rivals? Or when it assassinated India's Prime Minister or targetted Sinhalese civilians. No protests then. It's clear that they are upset today not because their relatives are getting killed but because the LTTE is losing and is near defeat. That's why in a 20+ year conflict we are seeing protests in only the last few months.

Aside from the issue itself, I disagree that they have the right to close down the highway. It's a slippery slope. Today, it's the gardiner on a sunday. Next it'll be Lakeshore GO during rush hour. And if it's okay for the Tamils, what about Punjabis fighting for Khalistan? or Chechens? or Armenians protesting their genocide? Would it be okay if Arab Canadians interrupted subway service to draw attention to their causes (Palestine, Lebanon, etc)?

We live in a multicultural society with people from around the world who will obviously come with baggage from around the world. If every one of those groups decide to start disrupting the public as a way of drawing attention then our major cities will quickly deteriorate into imposed chaos.

 

[gei]

The Critical Mass Cyclists were idiots to do what they did and the Truck Drivers & Farmers slowed traffic as a form of protest, they didn't have an impromptu highway blockage with young children placed in front presumably acting as shields.
Protests, rally's and marches are as democratic as voting, but what has been happening in the past couple of weeks blocking University Avenue and now the Gardiner has gone too far.
I PVR'd Breakfast Television and an organizer "suggested" that the 400 series highways may be next....
Oh, and hat's off to Toronto's Finest.

As I recall, weren't there some cyclists forced off the gardiner almost immediately a year or so ago when they tried to ride on to it to protest?

These people have committed a crime, and they are criminals. Why are they not in jail?

 

[PukeGreen]

I'm pretty darned liberal in my views and generally defend the right to protest in a meaningful location where you can be noticed, but these events are worrying me for a number of reasons:

1. It's not clear who is leading the protests, who can be negotiated with, and who will decide if/when the demands have been met.

2. They are protesting in a provincial capital whilst making demands of our federal government and the US Obama administration. This is an incredibly roundabout and ineffective way of making a point. The people being inconvenienced are not the ones in control of the situation, which leads only to anger and resentment.

3. The protesters are doing a poor job explaining their demands and views to the vast majority of Canadians who have little knowledge of Sri Lanka and the conflict there. Rather than simply repeating a mantra about their families being killed, they need to make more effort to explain to Canadians what the conflict is about, and why Canada should at this point become involved in a decades long bloody struggle in which there have (apparently) been deaths and atrocities committed by both sides. Additionally, there has been little explanation of how these protesters are distinct from the Tamil Tigers, which have been labeled a terrorist organization. I have seen a number of protest participants given lengthy opportunities on television to say their piece, but all have been somewhat repetitive and incoherent and none have satisfactorily addressed any of these basic issues in my opinion.

4. Through their tactics the protesters are being perceived as a) hiding behind women and children, who they evidently put around the outside of their group, as well as b) hiding behind the fear of the bad PR that will result if images of mainly white Canadian police officers are seen forcibly removing minority protesters. In the past when there have been protests with mainly white participants (aka Coalition Against Poverty in the 90s and cyclists in the past few years) tear gas and arrests happened much more quickly. These perceptions of cowardly tactics, whether right or wrong, do not help public opinion.

5. The protests are likely to fuel a backlash by more conservative types who will see these events as evidence that a) immigrants are not integrating into Canadian society and that some are taking advantage of it, and/or b) that the right of public protest should be more limited than it currently is.

Since it seems highly unlikely that these protests will result in any major military or peacekeeping effort by Canadians in Sri Lanka (if that is in fact what is wanted) then all of this looks like a lose, lose, lose, lose scenario for both the Tamil Community and all Canadians. It needs to be ended soon, preferably without violence, but I am worried the time for that may have passed.

 

[EnviroTO]

Protesting to raise awareness is one thing but they are now crossing the line. They are alienating a public which might not have even decided which side deserves their support. They are holding up flags of a group who fought other Tamil groups which supported the cause of Tamil self-governance, a group that decided that fighting for independence with weapons (with the uncertainty of success and the casualties such a fight brings) was worth it, even employing suicide bombs in civilian areas. There were many chances for peace along the way that the LTTE put an end to and now that the Sri Lankan army has been enraged to bloodthrist and inhumane war tactics we are supposed to act. There is no good side to this war. To do anything more than call for a cease to hostilities would be to pick sides.

There is a world of basketcase nations out there and it is unreasonable for immigrants to expect that somehow our country can solve all the problems that exist.

 

[Roy G Biv]

Most of the outrage is disguised xenophobia (as seen by some in this thread). Some, not so disguised. Peaceful and non-disruptive protests don't get air-time, and don't put pressure on the government to do something. What can they do? That's another story.

However, I think the allowance of very disruptive techniques sets a very dangerous precedent. David Miller looks like an idiot right now. He has to sit down with the "organizers" and hash things out, and make it clear that laws are being broken, and in that context, arrests will be made.


I'm a bleeding-heart Liberal who has supported their right-to-protest up to this point, although I could do without the LTTE flags etc. The whole thing has become stupid, and it won't end well. As a person of brown skin, I hope they don't play the race card when it does end. There is absolutely no way the 400 can be shut-down. The city needs to make that clear NOW.

 

[EnviroTO]

Aside from the issue itself, I disagree that they have the right to close down the highway. It's a slippery slope. Today, it's the gardiner on a sunday. Next it'll be Lakeshore GO during rush hour. And if it's okay for the Tamils, what about Punjabis fighting for Khalistan? or Chechens? or Armenians protesting their genocide? Would it be okay if Arab Canadians interrupted subway service to draw attention to their causes (Palestine, Lebanon, etc)?

Exactly. Today can be the poverty in Mali protest that closes the Gardiner. Tomorrow can be the lawlessness in Somalia protest that closes the Gardiner. Wednesday can be the government of Zimbabwe stinks protest that closes the Gardiner. Thursday can be the end drug crime in Mexico protest that closes the Gardiner and since the Gardiner is already closed the Free Tibet protest will close the 401.

I agree about protesting what the government is doing or changes to government policy. It makes no sense to protest what the government is not doing, especially outside our borders, because that is a long list that never ends and is outside the governments jurisdiction.

 

[Asterix]

Most of the outrage is disguised xenophobia (as seen by some in this thread). Some, not so disguised. Peaceful and non-disruptive protests don't get air-time, and don't put pressure on the government to do something. What can they do? That's another story.

I tend to disagree in that most of the outrage is not xenophobia (disguised or otherwise).

You say they want to the government to "do something".

What is that "something" that they would like the Canadian (Ontario?, Toronto?) government to do? Have they made clear and understandable demands beyond having the war ended?

Sure it would be nice if the violence was stopped, but it is a civil war and the legitimate armed forces of the country are engaged in a battle with rebels seeking to oust the recognized government, even if only in a subset of the country. The fact that both sides have not always been in compliance with the accepted rules and practices of war further muddies the issue.

Canada has already expressed its strong opinion that the violence stop, that participants lay down their arms and engage in a peace process. Canada has also provided humanitarian aid and funds to assist affected civilians.

As others have posted on this thread, there hasn't been a clear and coherent message from the demonstrators and that is seriously hampering any positives they hope to achieve.