Tamil Protests downtown

[AKS]

I think you guys are talking to a brick wall. The argument keeps going around in circles. Everything said is going on deaf ears. The only argument I keep reading over and over is "thousands have died", "taking over the highway is not hijack and important compared to thousands of deaths", "canada should wave a magic wand now and stop the war that's run on for a decade".

 

[toraerach]

Regardless of the legality or morality of the protests, there are many things the government of Canada could do besides calling for a ceasefire and sending aid. Economic and diplomatic sanctions are always an option. We might consider trying to get Sri Lanka suspended from the Commonwealth of Nations as it appears that they are in violation of the Harare Declaration.

There is nothing new or essentially bad about immigrant groups drawing their new homes into conflicts in their homelands. In some ways, what's going on with Sri Lankan Tamils is similar to what happened with Irish Americans. The United States eventually had to involve itself in the Anglo-Irish conflict because they were home to the largest ex-pat population. The same thing happened with Jews.

The thing that detracts from widespread support of the Tamil community in Canada I think is just ignorance of the issue. Many if not most Canadians didn't even know about this conflict until recently, not to mentions the particulars of it. We know, vaguely, about the Tamil Tigers and how they're a terrorist group. What we don't have in our collective imagination is an image of the Tamils as victims in the same way we could see the Irish or Black South Africans. There is no single event in the Sri Lankan conflict that carries the same baggage here as a Bloody Sunday, or a Sharpeville or Amritsar Massacre.

Not that I'm agreeing with the actions of the protestors, but it could be much much worse. There have been no assassinations or bombings targetting Sri Lankans, their diplomats, or high commissions/consulates. Nothing along the lines of the 1992 attack on the Iranian embassy in Ottawa, the assassinations of Thomas D'Arcy McGee or Atilla Altıkat, or the Air India Bombing. We had part of a highway shut down for a few hours on a Sunday night - that is all. It would have been better had there been some warning though.

Let's not forget that highway blockages aren't exactly uncommon. In addition to the incidents mentioned above, some highways are usually shit down as part of the Aboriginal Day of Action. In fact, it was probably the history of Aboriginal-police relationship in Ontario that made the force somewhat hesitant about moving in and stopping this thing. For all we know the situation could have spiralled out of control quite quickly and I think the police handled the situation fairly well.

As for emergency vehicles, they'd probably be the first to know about road closures anyway whether caused by protests, accidents, etc.

 

[toraerach]

Also keep in mind that the amount of protestors on the Gardiner was not that large compared to some of the other protests. Many Tamils and others who particpated in other events did not participate in this one, and although they might publicly support it, that may be more for the sake of presented a unified front than anything. I would be hesitant to paint the whole community or all the protestors as law-breaking child endangerers.

 

[nfitz]

There's two sides to every story. If we are going to discuss the conflict, let's discuss it in its entirety not just the last few days, weeks or months and not just the issues of one side. How about we start by discussing how the LTTE killed off every other Tamil dissident group and how they killed Sinhalese civilians?

The conflict is complicated. The LTTE are terrorists, and many should be executed. However, don't forget it was the Sinhalese who started this whole conflict in the first place with their racism and bigotry. Do you think there would be peace between the English and French in Canada if the English had done what the Sinhalese did - essentially banning the use of French in Quebec?

 

[allabootmatt]

I am unsure which way to go on this issue; on the one hand, I agree that shutting down an enclosed, elevated highway without warning is a categorically different situation than doing so on a city street. The point about an ambulance, or medical transport, being stuck unexpectedly is an important one. Similarly, on general law-and-order grounds this kind of behavior obviously shouldn't be rewarded--that's an invitation for more.

And yet...a major goal of all 'direct action' type protests is to provoke the police. I just read Mark Kurlansky's history of 1968--a nice little book, if anyone's interested in this topic--and he discusses how very early on the likes of Danny Cohn-Bendit and Abbie Hoffman (and Martin Luther King before them) figured out that with no violence, there's less of a story, and little sympathy for the protesters. The Tamil demonstrators in Toronto have been effectively daring the TPS to blast them with water cannon, forcibly remove them, whatever--that's why proverbial 'women and children' go up front; not to prevent police action but to make it look even worse when it happens. The 68-ers often put women up front for exactly this reason.

In that context, I think the cops have done an admirable job of refusing to be provoked. As has been noted here, a certain former chief would have probably brought out the rubber bullets by now, and it's a testament to Chief Blair's temperament that he has been so serene by comparison. The TPS in a classic Catch-22; respond and the protesters take control of the PR, don't respond and they shut down infrastructure with impunity.

I guess this is a roundabout way of saying that I think the way forward is some kind of mutually acceptable compromise, whereby the federal government makes some concrete gesture to acknowledge the (legitimate) concerns of the protesters but which falls short of allowing them to dictate policy, in exchange for an end to illegal actions.

Of course, if such a compromise is offered by Ottawa and then rejected, I'm fresh out of ideas. But it wouldn't hurt to try--or for our wonderful federal government, which loves to dodge responsibility for files it deems beneath its august position (like 'the pothole business') to actually do something about a problem that is clearly within its sole jurisdiction.

 

[jade_lee]

Seems the govt of Harper & CO expect Tamils to be flying airplanes into the Parliament of Canada ??

Seems Christie is similarily confused. Seems lots of people are similiarly confused.

Sure terror is terror but as someone pointed out above, Irish fundraisers have been at work in Canada for generations in support of bombings, assasinations and the like in their homeland.

Seems a prominent Conservative whom the PM openly suports called Nelson Mandella a trrorist.

Seem American authorities considered Martin Luther King and even the anti-war movement in the 60's as terrorist activities.

Seems Ontario insurgents marched - armed - against the authorities in Toronto in 1835. There were deaths.

Seems American colonists AND British rulers engaged in terror tactics during the war of Independence in the 1770's.

Seems the general strike in Canada was answered with shootings and deaths as hungry homeless workers protested. The govt of the day called them Communists and "terrorists" ?

Lets have a sense of perspective. (comment from the globe and mail)

Seems Canada is regressing.

 

[kEiThZ]

The conflict is complicated. The LTTE are terrorists, and many should be executed. However, don't forget it was the Sinhalese who started this whole conflict in the first place with their racism and bigotry. Do you think there would be peace between the English and French in Canada if the English had done what the Sinhalese did - essentially banning the use of French in Quebec?

I did not say that what the Sinhalese did was correct. However, since the start of the conflict a lot of developments have happened. And many of these protesters seem completely oblivious to the changes. Indeed, many of the university students handing out flyers in Ottawa didn't even know the LTTE assassinated Rajiv Gandhi after India sent peacekeepers to Sri Lanka. Yet, the LTTE and Tamilnet now routinely bemoan the lack of Indian involvement.

Let's be clear on this point. These protesters are protesting the demise of the LTTE. They are not out there defending the genuine rights of Tamils. If they were concerned about their kin, they would show concern about the LTTE's tactics. For example...for all the focus on Sri Lanka's government, the protesters have not challenged LTTE's refusal to let in UN and ICRC monitors. Although the governments refusal to let in monitors is disturbing, the government has let in foreign diplomatic staff and defence attaches to observe refugee camps, military operations, screening, etc. I know because I have seen the reports. And while this transparency isn't 100% it's a hell of a lot better than the LTTE. That goes a long way towards explaining why the international community is not pressuring the Sri Lankans.

Additionally, the international community has also come to see the LTTE as an obstacle of peace. The government had proposed a model of governance based on Canadian federalism (in particular looking at how Quebec was modeled) during negotiations after the last ceasefire. What did the LTTE do? They shot it down, demanded independence, returned to combat.

As for the protests themselves, note that nobody on here has disputed their right to protest. However, most of us draw the line at criminal behaviour. Personally, I can recognize and accept that most protests will involve some illegal action that might inconvenience the public to draw attention. However, I cannot accept threatening another person's safety just to get your message across. I consider it wrong to endanger motorists, damage their cars and to attack police officers.

I want everyone to imagine for a second that you are the first wave of motorists proceeding down the Gardiner at 100 kph when the protesters start rushing on to the freeway. Would this seem like a legitimate protest to you when your life is endangered as you swerve to miss people jumping in front of your vehicle? What would your opinion be if one of those motorists was killed trying to avoid a protester?

 

[realtycoon]

I hope I didn't claim that. Disagreeing with the Gardiner protest doesn't make you racist and/or xenophobic, but the Gardiner protest sure did seem to bring out a lot of racism and xenophobia in people. There's a difference.

This wasn't a hostage situation. It was a protest. The goal of a successful protest is to make yourself as visible as possible.

Is that a fact, or is that the "spin" that the left is putting out there!!!

How is it that opinions that Canada should not allow these refugees into Canada or to deport them considered Racist???

Have you ever dealt with the Canadian immigration system?? The system is racist and discriminitory throughout with specific quotas and requirements to allow immigrants from certain parts of the world and reject others...

 

[GraphicMatt]

Is that a fact, or is that the "spin" that the left is putting out there!!!

Considering you just referred to the entire Tamil community as terrorists in the Miller thread I'm going to go with 'fact'.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

...However, I cannot accept threatening another person's safety just to get your message across. I consider it wrong to endanger motorists, damage their cars and to attack police officers.

is there any videos on the net that show this? banging cars, taking bikes, attacking, etc?

 

[kEiThZ]

is there any videos on the net that show this? banging cars, taking bikes, attacking, etc?

They showed footage on CP24 of protesters taking on the cops, snatching their bikes, etc. It was later reported that a number of officers were injured in the scuffles and needed on-site medical attention. I dunno if anyone has posted clips on youtube or something.

As for the banging on cars and intimidation of motorists, I heard a number of callers who were stuck in traffic mention that and a few friends who were also caught in the situation mention the conduct of the protesters.

Of note, this protest follows a disruption of Ottawa's bus system during rush hour for 3 hours. And that was the transitway in Ottawa. Imagine if the subway gets blocked during rush hour in Toronto. And now that our politicians have caved in to this kind of intimidation, I would not rule out a shut down of subway service.

 

[urbandreamer]

Toronto needs a "Protest Square." A place where all protests must take place, by law. Oh, make it a giant cage on the 1 Bloor East site.

 

[Whoaccio]

is there any videos on the net that show this? banging cars, taking bikes, attacking, etc?

http://torontoprotest.blogspot.com/2009/05/tamil-protesters-block-downtown-toronto.html

 

[gabe]

Protest in TL square or NP square just stay the hell away from the subway systems and the highways and roads. Even my Tamil co workers are disgusted by these protesting idiots. People in Toronto are fed up next time they block the highway they will end up hood ornaments.

 

[Tewder]

I more returned to this thread because the argument that a peaceful non-violent protest by fellow Torontonians serves as some kind of indication that multiculturalism doesn't work is so supremely f'ed up that I couldn't let it stand.

You're full of shit! Nobody, and I mean *Nobody* said the Tamils don't have the right to protest so get off that topic and move on! There is a peaceful and lawful way to protest that is accepted and indeed encouraged by all.

Of course no one calls for the deportation of farmers - they are white. That people would raise deporatation for such a minor incident suggests that racism is a bigger problem in this country that I thought.

Why do all your posts sound like your a bigot? Are you a bigot?

Your endless harping that people are racist for being angered by these irresponsible and illegal actions is insulting, as is your assumption that anybody who does so is white and racist. Let me tell you, YOU are the only biggoted racist posting in this thread. Even worse, you are a hypocrit for accusing white people of the very thing you show yourself to be!


The Tamils lost me, and other citizens of all colours and backgrounds, when they started breaking the law, disrupting the functioning of the city and compromising the safety of fellow citizens for an 'overseas' issue. Not acceptable!

These illegal actions must be shut down so that an example is set. Canadian citizens taking part should be jailed or fined or whatever is appropriate, and landed residents deported as they do not have 'citizen' status yet. Also, quite frankly, Children's Aid should be removing children from the custody of those who are using them as pawns in their illegal activities.

This display of Canadian pride makes the heart swell: