Swaying Condo Buildings?

[Mike_Ondo]

Hey everyone, my first post here so please bear with any noob mistakes.

A friend of mine lives in a penthouse unit in north york and claims that the building sways just ever so slightly. Apparently is is possible that the buildings can resonate with the subway being underneath etc?

Is this possible? given that these buildings are all concrete and not more than 30 or so storeys... I've heard of this thing happening in tall steel office towers with counter-weights or something (from discovery channel) but never about condo's

just curious.

 

[whatever]

Any structure will move around a bit, whether it would be noticeable to an occupant is another matter.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

I'd be on the phone to my real estate agent to unload that place and out looking for a new home that doesn't have noticeable sway!

 

[khris]

They have to sway. If they don't, there is too much tension. I would assume this is like bridges.

Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=CA&hl=en&v=DgXveBf_l6k

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

Should a 30 storey building have noticeable sway? I lived on the 38th floor of a concrete apartment built in the mid 70's and never felt any sway. I know larger highrises are designed to sway with high pressure wind loads or in event of an earthquake but have damper systems to help reduce the feeling of the building swaying for the building's occupants.
I've read that some people are (were) in tune with sway in buildings such as the former WTC 1 & 2, Sears Tower etc. yet others aren't conscious of it at all.

 

[gristle]

The bridge video is very cool!

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

The bridge video is very cool!

Keep your eye on the National Geographic Channel, they have "bridge week" 3 or 4 times a year and you'll see lots of this. Long bridges have a variety of brilliantly engineered systems to enable safe rise, drop and sway with heavy/light loads and events such as earthquakes and typhoons.

 

[jaycola]

1 King west has water filled tanks near the top of the building to control sway.

"Added to this was a unique structural feature consisting of a 5,000 sq. ft. rooftop mass damper. The damper reacts to sudden wind bursts and minimizes perceived building sway. The swimming pool-style damper has 10 compartments of water, each designed to move opposite to the movement of the building." http://www.onekingwest.com/hotel/history/

 

[Urban Shocker]

My two storey wood-frame house always sways/shifts ( some doors don't close as easily in the summer months ... ) in predictable ways with the seasonal - and presumably temperature related - expansion and contractions of the beams, so it doesn't seem unreasonable for a tall condo to shimmy around a bit.

 

[Jarrek]

My two storey wood-frame house always sways/shifts ( some doors don't close as easily in the summer months ... ) in predictable ways with the seasonal - and presumably temperature related - expansion and contractions of the beams, so it doesn't seem unreasonable for a tall condo to shimmy around a bit.

Expansion/Contraction during summer/winter has to do more with relative indoor humidity than with sway ...

 

[Therion]

I don't think there should be any noticeable sway in anything less than 50 floors. I'd be worried if my 23rd floor condo starting moving around underneath me. Then again, it's possible that with the modern steel-heavy, light on concrete construction methods the buildings aren't as heavy and stable, and might move around a bit in the wind.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

I don't think there should be any noticeable sway in anything less than 50 floors. I'd be worried if my 23rd floor condo starting moving around underneath me. Then again, it's possible that with the modern steel-heavy, light on concrete construction methods the buildings aren't as heavy and stable, and might move around a bit in the wind.

Anyone remember those condos in Richmond Hill about 10 years ago? They moved, unfortunately it was down not sideways.

 

[yongestreet]

Is this an ongoing concern?
Other than the Richmond Hill residence, are there other incidens where the buildings swag themselves into disaster or was that a one-off that was quickly learned from?

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

Is this an ongoing concern?
Other than the Richmond Hill residence, are there other incidens where the buildings swag themselves into disaster or was that a one-off that was quickly learned from?

It was more of a one-off event.

The building was built over a large pressurized aquifer which had been punctured during construction. Construction was halted, one level of underground parking was eliminated and a geotechnical consultant hired by the developer made numerous recommendations with respect to how the construction could properly be completed to avoid further damage.

The building was completed and the developer sold all the luxury condominium units to individual purchasers. Approximately eight years later, large voids were discovered underneath the building’s foundations as a result of the pressurized aquifer continuing to wash soils into the large sump systems located within the building. The Town issued an emergency order to vacate the building, resulting in a flurry of litigation activity.

Richmond Hill and a number of other defendants were sued for $51,000,000 in damages, $41,000,000 in excess of its insurance limits. It was expected that the repair work would cost millions of dollars and the Condominium Corporation did not have the means to pay for it. If the building was not repaired, it would have to be demolished because of the unsafe condition, which would have resulted in damage claims in the tens of millions of dollars, well above the municipality’s coverage limits.

Richmond Hill only had one option, namely, to ensure that the building was repaired and the damages would be contained within the policy limits. The way it achieved this was by entering into a loan agreement with the Condominium Corporation, whereby it eventually advanced $6,000,000 in loans for repair costs, without prejudice to the determination of liability for the damages suffered by the Condominium Corporation. The Town did receive priority over all mortgages by way of an assignment of the special assessment the Condominium Corporation would levy to repay the loan (this is a provision available under the Condominium Act). The Town also obtained an assignment of all settlement and insurance proceeds from the Condominium Corporation. The repair work was successfully completed at a total cost of approximately $6,150,000 and the action was settled for approximately $6,700,000, including costs. The Town’s insurer, OMEX contributed $1,962,294 to the setttlement and Richmond Hill was fully repaid for all of its loans out of the settlement proceeds.

The net result was that the Town avoided any exposure above its insurance limits, and the Town’s insurer was able to secure a settlement with contributions from a number of other parties.

Source

 

[confusion]

If the building DIDN'T sway, I'd be worried.

This is normal and expected. It helps the building sustain movements from wind or other sources.