Subway Construction Costs

[north-of-anything]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm... there seems to be a link between tunnel boring and high costs.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm... there seems to be a link between tunnel boring and high costs.

So you're saying tunneled transit is more expensive than elevated transit? IMPOSSIBLE!

 

[Neutrino]

Tunnels are boring anyway

 

[Admiral Beez]

Leslie's one of those stations, like Wilson, where you just shake your head while walking (and walking and walking) through it. Downsview is ridiculously overbuilt as well, but it's rather attractive, in somewhat of a showcase location, and a terminus (even though not intended to be a 'this far, no farther' terminus like Finch). Downsview is cavernous...but imagine how stupid it'd be if the mezzanine extended over the entire platform *and* the stairs/washrooms/bus bays/sleeping, er, collector booths/etc. extended well beyond the platform.

There is a bit of 'can't have your cake and eat it too' regarding keeping all the structures within and above the platform because spaces that go well beyond the platform tend to improve the accessibility on the surface from a pedestrian's perspective. Bessarion, for instance, has two exits in the middle of the platform instead of one at each end, and does not minimize the distance to transit. Lawrence's staircases could have been shifted so that they reached the surface at the end of the platform and not a block away, but this would A) mean beginning both staircases in the middle of the platform and not at each end, which is not as ideal for crowd control or emergency egress and B) mean increasing the walking distance to the station, and even though the distance to the platform wouldn't change, people would feel like their trip is shorter if the distance between their front door and the place where they actually pay their fare is minimized. There is a C option, but having stairs do switchbacks is bad for circulation and requires so many escalators that the TTC budget would need to double due to repairmen. Of course, this only applies to very deep stations...but since the powers that be insist that everything be tunnelled, we're going to keep running into these problems. A shallow/trenched/at-grade/elevated station doesn't need to excavate out another 100m of cavern to fit stairs. That doesn't mean they don't build these tunnels, anyway, though.



We've been over this and you're wrong. That entrance hut is also not a mezzanine and it doesn't sit on flat ground, so unless you want a sloping floor, you need some stairs somewhere. You must walk up to the southern entrance hut of York Mills station, too. That doesn't mean York Mills isn't underground.



With Leslie, you currently have 3 entrances on the same corner of Leslie & Sheppard, and a fourth will be built on the same corner when the Canadian Tire HQ is built. We want multiple entrances at each station, but not long tunnels to serve the same place. Spread the entrances around. Overbuild like Downsview, don't overbuild like Leslie. There's a difference, and the latter is a waste of money. Why take a nearly 100m tunnel all the way to Leslie and then not cross the street?

Tall ceilings are better than short ceilings, particularly when it means not filling the station back in with useless mezzanines, but why didn't the stubway cross the Don on a bridge instead of a raised tunnel? It's not like the bus terminal, the light wells, the substation, etc., are prepped for redevelopment or that the intersection is lined with stores and homes. The sky is a taller ceiling. Having transit run only in tunnels diminishes the riding experience...imagine the other lines without their outdoor segments, even - especially - the brief flashes.

Subway stations in the 'burbs should be the same as subway stations downtown, i.e. a storefront sign, leading to some stairs, down to the payment process and then more stairs to the platform. Through in an elevator if the government demands one.

This....

and this...

Less of this...

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Subway stations in the 'burbs should be the same as subway stations downtown, i.e. a storefront sign, leading to some stairs, down to the payment process and then more stairs to the platform. Through in an elevator if the government demands one.

I would say that the good number of YUS street level entrances represents the other end of what not to do - they are throughly inadequate and nasty in winter. Wider street level entrances as practice elsewhere around the world would be fine though.

Having said all that the focus perhaps should be on integrating these entrances in new developments in the burbs.

AoD

 

[innsertnamehere]

My understanding is that new stations have to be significantly larger for fire code reasons - they have to be able to handle the unloading of a crush-loaded train within a certain minimum amount of time, which means big, wide platforms, wide stair accesses, multiple entrances, etc.

Spadina's stations were a little over the top, but you can't get much smaller than how Sheppard was built. And those stations are massive compared to the downtown stations.. I fully expect under Ford we are going to get these extensions like the Sheppard line, a barebones facility done for as little money as possible.

 

[Admiral Beez]

My understanding is that new stations have to be significantly larger for fire code reasons - they have to be able to handle the unloading of a crush-loaded train within a certain minimum amount of time, which means big, wide platforms, wide stair accesses, multiple entrances, etc.

Spadina's stations were a little over the top, but you can't get much smaller than how Sheppard was built. And those stations are massive compared to the downtown stations.. I fully expect under Ford we are going to get these extensions like the Sheppard line, a barebones facility done for as little money as possible.

The downtown stations I see are modest. My main stations are Castle Frank and College. Both seem basic.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

My understanding is that new stations have to be significantly larger for fire code reasons - they have to be able to handle the unloading of a crush-loaded train within a certain minimum amount of time, which means big, wide platforms, wide stair accesses, multiple entrances, etc.

Spadina's stations were a little over the top, but you can't get much smaller than how Sheppard was built. And those stations are massive compared to the downtown stations.. I fully expect under Ford we are going to get these extensions like the Sheppard line, a barebones facility done for as little money as possible.

I don't know why we don't adopt the platform > vestibule > concourse > exit design common in London and elsewhere.

AoD