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Star: Flaherty - Transit Money not Firm

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AlvinofDiaspar

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From the Star:

TTC cash not firm: Flaherty
York U subway far from a sure thing, Tory warns
Decision on $2B project expected by year's end
Aug. 22, 2006. 05:26 AM
ROB FERGUSON AND ROBERT BENZIE
QUEEN'S PARK BUREAU

Federal funding to help extend the Spadina subway line to York University and into Vaughan is far from a sure thing, warns Finance Minister Jim Flaherty.

In his most pointed comments yet on the proposed $2 billion TTC expansion, Flaherty had some sobering news yesterday for subway riders.

"There isn't any firm money on the table," he told the Toronto Star.

While Flaherty said he has been having "constructive discussions" about the long-awaited subway extension with Ontario counterpart Greg Sorbara — including a private meeting Aug. 14 in Ottawa — a final decision is not expected until year's end.

The federal minister noted the Conservative government is balancing competing transportation priorities, including new highways.

In a separate interview, Sorbara stressed the future looks bright for the new 6.2 kilometre line from Downsview station, through the York campus and across Steeles Ave. into the 905 area code.

"I remain optimistic that they will participate because of the importance of the project and the importance of transit in the Greater Toronto Area," the Ontario finance minister said.

"At that meeting (Aug. 14) I agreed with Jim about the importance of the other components of transportation, including new highway infrastructure ... (including) the extension of Highway 407, which goes right into his riding," said Sorbara.

"I actually came out (of the meeting) feeling relatively positive within the context of how Jim Flaherty operates. He and his government are in the midst of a broadly based consultation on infrastructure ... right across the country," he said.

"I think Jim made it fairly clear he could not finalize the (subway) commitment in the midst of that process. On the other hand, I think we were successful in making the point to him that this is a vital link to begin a new generation of transit and transportation infrastructure."

In the March 23 provincial budget, Queen's Park guaranteed $670 million to the subway project with the expectation that the City of Toronto and York Region would contribute another third of the $2 billion needed and that Ottawa would fund the rest.

When Flaherty, who is Prime Minister Stephen Harper's GTA political minister, tabled the federal budget in May, he pledged up to $1.3 billion in support of public transit infrastructure, including the subway.

But yesterday he stressed it is just one of many possible transit projects the federal government is considering because of the "serious challenge" caused by road congestion in southern Ontario.

"This part of the economic engine is sputtering when it comes to transportation and transport," the minister said at a General Motors factory in Oshawa, where company and government officials announced workers there would soon revive the Camaro muscle car.

"One of the items that's on the table is the subway," added Flaherty.

"Some choices will have to be made, inevitably. We can't do everything."

Insiders note that partisan politics could also be at play. The extended Spadina subway line would run through ridings that are held provincially and federally by Liberals. That would likely help Premier Dalton McGuinty's provincial Liberals in their re-election bid on Oct. 4, 2007.

But it is less clear how a new subway in that part of Toronto would be politically advantageous for Harper's minority Conservatives, who could face the electorate as early as next spring.

Conservative sources point out that the federal largesse could be more fruitfully spent on other transit priorities in and around Toronto, where the federal Tories have a better chance of winning seats in the next election.

AoD
 
And I thought the Fiberals were wishy washy. To have mentioned the subway implicitly in their budget document, and then say its still not guaranteed based upon - highways - is ludicrious. I thought there budget anyways was very lite on the money considering what they stated they wanted to do with it.
 
If the Regressive Conservatives opt to put taxpayers' money into extending a highway that will funnel traffic directly into a privately run toll road...

...my blood will positively boil and I will likely be drawn to all manner of civil disobedience. Surely there would be a massive scandal if Flaherty were to plow public money into a private highway through his own riding. I cannot believe the feds are even speculating about extending the 407.

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Unfortunately, politics does play a part in spending decisions.... on the bright side -- I think the money will be there for subway construction -- of somesort.

I do question the reasoning behind lengthening the subway line up to outside Toronto. It seems that transit planning in and around Toronto is quite half-assed and not very well thought out (pet projects here, pet projects there). The question now should be where do we want to be in 25 years from now, and then setting priorities that work towards that goal while solving short-term problems as well.

My thoughts on where it should be in 25 years is that the transit systems should be integrated, and the current transit pricing structure should be changed to a zone system. The more zones that you travel through, the higher the price. Via-Rail (federal) should be killed. The Via-Rail system should be transferred to Provincial domain (Ontario and Quebec) -- with some federal funding to help in the transition (including moving to passenger only rail lines).

The system should be organized into three tiers:
- Local (Buses, LRT, Subway)
- Regional/Express (GO transit replaced with the electric trains that are lighter and cost effective to operate)
- Express (Via Rail replacement - intercity)

Because Cities will continue to expand, and transit is no longer a purely local interest -- transit should be removed from City councils and an Ontario crown corporation created with a professional board put in place to buffer it from the day-to-day politics of the Ontario government.

A charter should be drawn up to state exactly what the goals and expectations of the crown corporation should be. The funding for the transit crown corporation should be set at a certain percentage funded from taxes, and a certain percentage from ridership (for example 40/60). Currently the TTC is funded around 80% through fees (I think). Money should be allocated on a forumla basis (taking into account density, ridership, potential ridership, etc.).

Specific to this route:

The problem as I see it is that they are picking the wrong selection for that corridor. Subway is a high-density option, and I don't see the density supporting subway construction there.

That moves it to the second tier: Regional/Express. There is a rail right-of-way that goes through that area towards York University (west side of Downsview Airport area) -- looking at my map. That should be used for Regional/Express trains (electrified regional trains). The Regional train could travel from Union-Bloor-Downsview/Sheppard-YorkU->North. If the Zone pricing from Union to Downsview is X, then the regional express price would be X for the same distance. The existing Sheppard line could be extended from the Downsview/Sheppard - Scarborough town-centre.
 
The Conservatives will gain very little political capital by spending $670m on the subway expansion. Politically it makes little sense - they would be wiser to spend that money in other areas of the GTA as there really aren't many votes for them in Vaughan or north Toronto.

Obviously I hope the money is allocated towards the subway, but in a minority government with an election likely within the year the government is going to be very prudent in terms of where money is spent and how it can translate into votes and seats.
 
It's not necessarily either/or here for the tranportation infrastructure spending re 407 or the Spadina extension to Vaughan. I agree that the Conservatives have little to gain by giving money to extend the Spadina subway: they don't have much hope of electing anyone in any of the ridings involved. To throw money at the 407 however, might be political suicide for Flaherty: essentially any extension to that highway will merely funnel cars into a private foreign owned roadway with an infamous record of jacking tolls whenever they want, and all this would happen in the Transport Minister's own riding! How much more of a blatant misuse of public money would that be?

What would be a total surprise, and something that might even get the Tories votes in the GTA, would be to give $670 million to GO Transit to turn it into something far more useful for the whole commutershed. I'd love to see what would happen if they proposed that. A well thought out expansion fo the whole GO system would expose the expensive but only barely useful Spadina extension into Vaughan for the blantantly political move it is.

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I'm hearing that the feds are eager to fund the Kipling subway station reconstruction. Makes sense from a political point of view as Etobicoke and Peel Region are their best chances in the GTA of electing Tories in the next fed election. Also, they wouldn't mind embarrassing the next lib leader Ignatieff by defeating him in his own riding.
 
But yesterday he stressed it is just one of many possible transit projects the federal government is considering because of the "serious challenge" caused by road congestion in southern Ontario.

"This part of the economic engine is sputtering when it comes to transportation and transport," the minister said at a General Motors factory in Oshawa, where company and government officials announced workers there would soon revive the Camaro muscle car.

Call me paranoid, but the subway extension has now become "one of many possible transit projects" considered for funding. In the same article are references to highways, roads and muscle cars - naw, I'm just being paranoid.
 
You know there's something wrong when "possible transit projects" includes highways.
 
Flaherty has discussed his interest in a future highway corridor north of 407.

Although currently in Oshawa and Durham the 407 extention to the 115/35 would certainly be the priority. I'm just confused as to whether he means chipping in federal money or just pushing the province to get through the EA process ts the 407ETR consortium can move forward into the construction phase.
 
Well, certainly said 407/115 connection has the advantage of passing through Flaherty's riding (and Bev Oda's as well).

I just hope this doesn't mean that 115 will be converted to a tolled 407 and I'll have to figure some county-road sleight-of-hand in order to get to Peterborough and points beyond...
 
Political partisanship bugs the crap out of me and unfortunately federal politics in this country is saturated with it. Let's just hope the money gets spent on something in the end and spend soon not ten years from now. Personally if it is subway extention or highway makes no difference to me, I have made my choice to live and work in the old city of Toronto and therefore traffic congestion is an irrelevent issue to me. Either way this is about winning suburban votes.
 
Really I wouldn't mind if the subway expansion died completely. There are so many possibilities for subway expansion that make more sense than Spadina that its kinda funny. Anyway, subways are really expensive and until we are ready to make a concerted subway construction effort, i.e. finish Sheppard, do Eglinton, replace Scarborough, expand Bloor, etc., then I really see no reason to bother. Focus on making current system work better. More buses on the roads. Get rid of the tokens. Get little signs that say when the next bus/train is coming. There's so many little things that would make the system that we do have that much better. Projects that just cater to a certain politician's whim is not my idea of transit planning.
 
I am afraid of what will happen if the Vaughan extension goes ahead..... if it is an operational pig.... it will just suck money out of the wider system on an annual basis.

I suspect the funding is there to "build" it, but are expecting the line to "operate" under existing funding.
 
If the York U extension is built is must go up into Vaughan so that the city of Toronto only has to pay 1/6 instead of 1/3 (if that's how it'll be split).
 

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