So why is North York so Expensive? And Scarborough so cheap?

[King of Kensington]

North York has easy accessibility to downtown Toronto via Don Valley Parkway, Finch Station, and Sheppard subway line.
Bayview Avenue which runs through central North York has long been considered a prestigous road to live nearby.
North York is also home to some of the best schools in the GTA.

Scarborough do not have these features and nor have some of the finer older houses and established neighbourhoods like North York has.
Demographics are also very different, as Scarborough is home to a larger concentration of immigrants and poorer and lesser educated residents.
Like any town/city, Scarborough does have some pockets of expensive and highly desirable neighbourhoods, such as Scarborough Village and The Bluffs.

^This

North York has always been more affluent than Scarborough and is more centrally located.

Curious though if the DVP is as significant a dividing line as Victoria Park in terms of real estate prices.

Though Scarborough has a higher percentage of visible minorities and immigrants, I would argue that North York is probably just as diverse if not more so. Scarborough has larger representation of a few groups while North York has a lot more immigrant and ethnic communities represesnted (i.e. Filipinos, Koreans, Iranians, Jews, Russians, Africans, etc.)

 

[Kenny]

Curious though if the DVP is as significant a dividing line as Victoria Park in terms of real estate prices.

I'm not positive, but on the east end of North York, there seems to be a dividing line on Don Mills north of York Mills; south of York Mills, the line is Parkwoods to Victoria Park, down to Lawrence; south of Lawrence, the line goes back to Don Mills; south of Eglinton, the line might be at Laird.

 

[James]

I would say the dividing line is Leslie Street. Real estate west of Leslie (i.e. the Denlow-Rippleton school district area) is very different than real estate east of Leslie. But as is the typical case, neighborhoods adjacent to the most sought-after areas experience the trickle effect, whereby their property values inevitably get boosted up by virtue of people getting priced out of the prime neighborhood. The residential area around Don Mills Rd, around Lawrence up to York Mills (i.e. Banbury-Don Mills) has been slowly but surely seeing property values skyrocket too.

The area east of the DVP (Parkwoods) is clearly a whole different neighborhood with the multitude of high-rise buildings. However, it's still interesting to note that homes east of the DVP in the pocket between Lawrence and York Mills are very quickly getting much more expensive.

East of Victoria Park is most definitely a significance, solely on the principle of being situated in Scarborough. But even then, the homes in Scarborough closest to Victoria Park, especially north of the 401, are creeping up in price pretty quickly too.

 

[Admiral Beez]

So true. What will going to stc do for anyone?

Interestingly, all of the subway projects in Scarborough are about connecting to shopping malls. I suppose it is convenient for http://www.lids.ca/ and the rest of rubbish stores I see.

 

[Chrisgo]

Their is a perception that Scarborough is detached from the city. If you asked someone why they wouldn't buy a house in Scarborough, many would reply with "I don't want to live way out there". The west of say, the DVP, is more familiar. It's a route to Mississauga, Kitchener, Guelph, Orangeville, Caledon, Brampton etc.... There is really no reason to go to Scarborough, other than to live, (not a bad thing). But it will never have the settlements that other parts of the city has, because it is very much off the beaten path. In other words, it's not very "urban".

 

[James]

I had an interesting conversation not too long ago with a friend about the west vs. east ideology within the GTA and were wondering why areas to the east, i.e. Scarborough, Pickering, Ajax, Whitby, etc. haven't boomed in magnitude as much as areas to the west, i.e. Etobicoke, Mississauga, Oakville, etc.

In short, we discussed how there really wasn't as much economic growth towards the east as there is towards the west. There seems to be more economic hubs en route from Toronto down towards London or Niagara Falls. It just seems inevitable that people will settle in areas where there is work. All of this is on a much larger scale than what we're talking about regarding North York and Scarborough but I think it's still interesting and relevant to note how development/demand expands directionally. Areas north of the city, i.e. Vaughan, Richmond Hill, Markham, etc., are all growing economically and demographically. There are fantastic residential neighborhoods in Scarborough which unfortunately don't get enough credit simply because it's not the "hot" neighborhood of the week.

 

[King of Kensington]

The east-west divide, with the west being more affluent, prevails in most Ontario cities as well, including Ottawa, Kingston, Hamilton and London.

There's also a northwest corridor that's much more working class and historically an industrial area, running from the Junction and the old borough of York, running through Downsview and Rexdale, and into Malton and Brampton.

As a general rule in the GTA the order of prestige (going from downtown) probably goes north, then west, then northwest and east about the same. Thus a huge swath of North York is well placed in that northern corridor.

 

[kEiThZ]

Wow, some seriously ignorant people on these threads...

And yet people wonder why Scarborough residents feel like they get the shaft.

This thread on URBAN TORONTO no less should be proof of the prevailing mentality.


And for what it's worth, let's say it out loud. A lot of the mentality has to do with racism. Scarborough residents are darker and therefore less deserving of everything. Despite being part of the 416, people seem to have more consideration for Pickering, Markham, etc.

 

[kEiThZ]

Interestingly, all of the subway projects in Scarborough are about connecting to shopping malls. I suppose it is convenient for http://www.lids.ca/ and the rest of rubbish stores I see.

Please. STC is and will be more than the mall going forward. Like it or not, malls have become connection nodes in suburban Toronto. Square One in 'sauga, Shopper's World in Brampton, etc. are no different. At least Scarborough has and is working on more employment in the area.

 

[Eug]

And yet people wonder why Scarborough residents feel like they get the shaft.

This thread on URBAN TORONTO no less should be proof of the prevailing mentality.


And for what it's worth, let's say it out loud. A lot of the mentality has to do with racism. Scarborough residents are darker and therefore less deserving of everything. Despite being part of the 416, people seem to have more consideration for Pickering, Markham, etc.

Heh. So you went there. Maybe there's a little bit of truth to that for some people, but it is also true that large parts of Scarborough simply aren't very nice. However, a lot of places in our beloved Scarberia are indeed nice of course.

Ironically, where I live in Scarborough it is very white Anglo-Saxon, and I often drive to Markham for better Chinese food. East of where I live, Indian food is not bad though. For example, Anjappar Chettinad is one restaurant I like. However, they are a chain, located in Brampton and Mississauga as well.

 

[ehlow]

Their is a perception that Scarborough is detached from the city. If you asked someone why they wouldn't buy a house in Scarborough, many would reply with "I don't want to live way out there". The west of say, the DVP, is more familiar. It's a route to Mississauga, Kitchener, Guelph, Orangeville, Caledon, Brampton etc.... There is really no reason to go to Scarborough, other than to live, (not a bad thing). But it will never have the settlements that other parts of the city has, because it is very much off the beaten path. In other words, it's not very "urban".

I would argue that some of the restaurants in Scarborough are fantastic, and I'm someone who has never lived or worked in Scarborough. Also Rouge Park and the Bluffs are reasons to go to Scarborough . To be honest though I can't think of other reasons to go there.

To me, one of the key differences between North York and Scarborough was and is transit. Before the subway, the Yonge streetcar went up there, encouraging development where NYCC is now.

http://peoplemaps.esri.com/toronto/ In the 1947 map you can see that North York around Yonge already had development due to the streetcar and most of what Scarborough is now was farmland.

 

[Eug]

Their is a perception that Scarborough is detached from the city. If you asked someone why they wouldn't buy a house in Scarborough, many would reply with "I don't want to live way out there". The west of say, the DVP, is more familiar. It's a route to Mississauga, Kitchener, Guelph, Orangeville, Caledon, Brampton etc.... There is really no reason to go to Scarborough, other than to live, (not a bad thing). But it will never have the settlements that other parts of the city has, because it is very much off the beaten path. In other words, it's not very "urban".

I would argue that some of the restaurants in Scarborough are fantastic, and I'm someone who has never lived or worked in Scarborough. Also Rouge Park and the Bluffs are reasons to go to Scarborough . To be honest though I can't think of other reasons to go there.

To me, one of the key differences between North York and Scarborough was and is transit. Before the subway, the Yonge streetcar went up there, encouraging development where NYCC is now.

http://peoplemaps.esri.com/toronto/ In the 1947 map you can see that North York around Yonge already had development due to the streetcar and most of what Scarborough is now was farmland.

Yeah, I would suggest taking a quiet hike along the top of the bluffs, and perhaps along the waterfront at the base of the bluffs. It's totally awesome.

http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/contentonly?vgnextoid=0519dada600f0410VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD
http://www.ontariotrails.on.ca/trails-a-z/scarborough-bluffs-trail

 

[ehlow]

Yeah, I would suggest taking a quiet hike along the top of the bluffs, and perhaps along the waterfront at the base of the bluffs. It's totally awesome.

http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/contentonly?vgnextoid=0519dada600f0410VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD
http://www.ontariotrails.on.ca/trails-a-z/scarborough-bluffs-trail

I really really should go. I've never been before but it looks beautiful.

To experience what this city has to offer in terms of food, you really do need to go to Scarborough or other suburban areas, since that's where immigrants are and therefore that's where the good food from various cultures are.

I'd say the Chinese malls near Steeles are worth visiting as well, at least once, although I guess that's right on the border between Scarborough and Markham.

 

[Eug]

If you do go, stay near the hiking paths on the bluffs (and don't go to the bluffs edge in the fenced off areas), or else take the road down to the water and walk there. One access road to the water is on Glen Everest drive, right beside Rosetta McClain gardens. In this planned hike, they go west from Glen Everest:

http://www.torontooutdoorclub.com/events/details.asp?eventid=4040

Some of the terrain there is rocky, but the benefit is you exit in a completely different area. What I usually do though is go east from Glen Everest until I can't go any further (until I can see Bluffer's Park), and then I come back again and exit the same place I entered. However the reason for this is because we live near there so it's a short walk to that entrance. Also, the eastern path is a beginner flat path for the most part so it's a lot easier to hike quickly.

Another area that's rougher terrain is at Guildwood although I haven't personally tried it yet:

http://spacing.ca/toronto/2008/06/01/ruins-along-the-bluffs/

Don't do what some people do is try to hike up the cliffs. It seems doable from the bottom, but when you get halfway up, it gets precariously steep in many areas. Every few years people have to be rescued because they think they can walk up a cliff face.

http://www.insidetoronto.com/news-story/25318-couple-rescued-from-scarborough-bluffs/

 

[ehlow]

^ thanks Eug! I'll drive over there when it's a bit warmer