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SmartTrack (Proposed)

mdrejhon

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Hybrid. I believe it will be priced like TTC within 416 with free transfers -- while priced like GO outside 416. It won't be priced triple-tier like UPX. Almost guaranteed.

90% confidence in this prediction by 2029 (or whatever GO Expansion in-service date is for the first electrification within 416).

Thanks to the tough learning experience of UPX, Metrolinx's not going to touch that ultra-premium business model with a 10-foot pole for a long time, except partially for a High Speed Train (beyond 2030) -- and even that will have pricing tiers that includes a cheap tier too -- daily frequent-commuter fares will still be probably cheaper than UPX (inflation adjusted) for Kitchener-Union. I paid a spontaneous walk-up fare of ~24 dollars on my last high speed train ride (unassigned seat, missed my train, waited for next train 20 min later, 300kph) that went a multistation distance roughly as big as Hamilton-to-Oshawa. Adjacent pairs were under ten dollars for walk up fares.
 
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sixrings

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Well I believe a pay by distance future is coming with presto. So sure it can be TTC fare. But what if TTC uses fare by distance it won't be the TTC faRe we see today. They may very well not only price by distance but charge extra for express transit like subways or RER/Smarttrack.
 

ssiguy2

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I can see fare by distance via Presto and I certainly think most Torontonians would view it as reasonable. Obviously charging per km is absurd but charging by a few km blocks of travel is doable. A example would be 1 to 10km $2.50, 10 to 20km $3.25, and more than 20km $4 whether by bus, streetcar, LRT, subway or RER within the 416. The standard fare must be 20km because it allows people to get from their homes, no matter where in Toronto they are, to the Union/Bloor &Yonge. It would be the same fare as it is today from people going from Malvern to downtown but crosstown travel {ie Malvern to Lakeshore RER or Humber to River Rouge} would pay the extra fare and those on shorter trip would pay less.

In order for any fare-by-distance system to be politically palatable, it must be presented that your trip to downtown will either go down or at least stay the same.
 

micheal_can

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I can see fare by distance via Presto and I certainly think most Torontonians would view it as reasonable. Obviously charging per km is absurd but charging by a few km blocks of travel is doable. A example would be 1 to 10km $2.50, 10 to 20km $3.25, and more than 20km $4 whether by bus, streetcar, LRT, subway or RER within the 416. The standard fare must be 20km because it allows people to get from their homes, no matter where in Toronto they are, to the Union/Bloor &Yonge. It would be the same fare as it is today from people going from Malvern to downtown but crosstown travel {ie Malvern to Lakeshore RER or Humber to River Rouge} would pay the extra fare and those on shorter trip would pay less.

In order for any fare-by-distance system to be politically palatable, it must be presented that your trip to downtown will either go down or at least stay the same.
Maybe the city should be divided into fare zones.
 

ssiguy2

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Fare zones could be problematic in a city like Toronto. Vancouver has zones {although no longer with buses as all buses are one zone but may require an up zone to take SkyTrain} but Vancouver is geographically very different. There are relatively few bus routes that cross zones and the zones are very identifiably due to most being simply due to water bodies making up most of the zone boundaries. In Toronto there are a plethora of routes that cross the city and so it would be difficult for people to know what zone they are in as well as being a logistical nightmare.

I think a very BASIC fare by distance is the way to go.
 

micheal_can

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Fare zones could be problematic in a city like Toronto. Vancouver has zones {although no longer with buses as all buses are one zone but may require an up zone to take SkyTrain} but Vancouver is geographically very different. There are relatively few bus routes that cross zones and the zones are very identifiably due to most being simply due to water bodies making up most of the zone boundaries. In Toronto there are a plethora of routes that cross the city and so it would be difficult for people to know what zone they are in as well as being a logistical nightmare.

I think a very BASIC fare by distance is the way to go.
Cross over the 401, 427 or DVP, a different fare. See, I just made it simple.
 

junctionist

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SmartTrack should be just another part of the TTC. The fare should be $3.10 with Presto, and the trains should run every 10-15 minutes minimum. There are so many neighbourhoods in the city that lack affordable rapid transit that could get it with SmartTrack.

It's not fair that some neighbourhoods get transit expansion like the Ontario Line, which will probably be fully integrated with the TTC subway network, while others have to make do with so-called "premium" services with high fares. You're not getting a premium ride if it only comes once every 10-15 minutes versus the subway and it doesn't include any free transfers to anything.

If you look at the map of proposed SmartTrack stations, you'll see that many are in low to middle-income neighbourhoods like Mount Dennis or Lawrence Kennedy. People in those neighbourhoods are less likely to pay $7 each way for a TTC local route plus SmartTrack. SmartTrack should have complete fare integration with the TTC to be successful.
 
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micheal_can

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What about fares based on mode? So, for example, the lowest fare is bus, using streetcars/LRT is $0.50 more than bus, Subway/SRT is $1 more than bus, and Smartrack is $1.50 more than bus. The fare is based on the highest mode, so if you end up using all 4 modes, you end up paying $1.50 more than the base fare.
 

Jaye101

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Fare zones within Toronto, no matter how you draw them, would disproportionately effect people in North York, Etobicoke and Scarborough. They travel further distances due to the suburban built form. You can say 'tHaT's YoUr FaUlT fOr LiViNg iN tHe SuBuRbS' but this ignores the reality that most of Toronto's priority neighbourhoods are found in Suburban Toronto.

It can also dissuade users in the outer boroughs from using transit altogether if fares for their usual trips become much more expensive. Suburb to Suburb trips being the most effected by this, the very users we should be incentivizing to use transit.

Furthermore, a disproportionately higher number of trips are made in Old Toronto compared with Suburban Toronto. In many fare zone scenarios these fares would be the most discounted, which I don't believe would be sustainable. This would either result in small cumbersome fare zones within Old Toronto, or force the cost of crossing zones to be so small it begs the question, why do it?

The 416 should be 1 fare zone. I can't see anyone survive politically suggesting otherwise unless imposed onto us by the province.
 

W. K. Lis

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City to expand discounted TTC fare program to 23,000 more low-income Torontonians

See link.

The city will offer an additional 23,000 low income Torontonians access to its discounted TTC fare program, a move that Mayor John Tory says will “make life more affordable” for residents who are struggling to get by.

Tory made the announcement at the Alexandra Park Early Learning & Child Care Centre on Thursday morning.

The discounted fare program was previously offered to 150,000 residents who receive payments through Ontario Works or the Ontario Disability Support Program but the program will now be expanded to the 23,000 Torontonians who receive child care subsidies.
It should be noted that the families of the 17,284 children on the wait list for subsidized child care spots will not be eligible for the discount.

Tory conceded that it is unfortunate that the program cannot be expanded to those people as well but he said that it would be impossible to verify their incomes for the purpose of determining eligibility, at least for now.

“The City of Toronto and its residents know that an affordable and reliable transit system is key to everyday life because it connects people to jobs, to services and just to life in the city. If they can’t afford transit they may not, for example, be able to take a specific job or go to a necessary medical appointment and these are things that are going to help lift people out of poverty,” Tory said. “That is why we introduced the fare pass discount program, that is why we introduced the kids ride free program and that is one of the reason we introduced the two-hour transfer.”

Participants can save nearly $32 on monthly pass

The discounted TTC fare program was launched in April, 2018 as part of the city’s poverty reduction strategy.

Eligible residents can receive a Presto card, which entitles them to a one-third discount on the cost of a adult fare. The discount drops the cost of a single adult fare by about a dollar to $2.05 and it reduces the cost of a monthly pass by almost $32 to $119.40.

Tory said that the hope is to eventually expand the eligibility for the program to all low-income residents, though he said those efforts have been complicated by actually identifying low-income Torontonians.

“It is frustrating that you can’t just get the information readily but the fact is that it is complex and I know that our officials are working very hard to try to address these issues, so that we can extend it to the entire group,” he said, noting that income information will have to be provided by Revenue Canada. “It will be extended as soon as we get these issues resolved but it taking some time to do that.”

Tory said that staff have already begun notifying childcare subsidy recipients of their eligibility for the fare pass discount program and will continue to do so over the coming days and weeks.

He said that the cost of extending the discounted fare program to the subsidy recipients will be $2.4 million a year, bringing the annual cost of all of the TTC’s various fare discount programs to $25 million.

“This investment is going to earn a substantial return in terms of people that will now have access to this program that I think will help them not only have their life be more affordable but also be more mobile in the city,” he said.

More than 150,000 Torontonians have been eligible for the program since April, 2018, though only 62,000 have signed up so far.
The problem is really the lack of the knowledge of the eligibility. If you don't ask, one will not get it.
 

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