SmartTrack (Proposed)

[jje1000]

Honestly I don't know where people are getting the whole "RER is dead, stick a fork in it" vibe from.

 

[rbt]

Honestly I don't know where people are getting the whole "RER is dead, stick a fork in it" vibe from.

Metrolinx has numerous moving parts and they make it very difficult to keep track of those parts from one meeting to the next. Quarterly reports never mention tender IDs or their status. Rather than the wordy reports which are very light on detail, I would much prefer a simple table with "Tender ID", "Description of Content", "Status", "Target Completion Date". Status being in design, RFP, RFQ, Awarded, construction start, construction complete. TTC does a decent job of this in their newer capital reports.

There were 4 early works for RER which had been broken out of the large RER contracts because they were considered time critical to hit the completion date.

1. Barrie line: tendered and in progress
2. Union Station Rail Corridor East: EA complete, now in design
3. Union Station Rail Corridor West: Shifts around tracks for improved throughput and to make space for stations like Spadina. I believe this started the tendering process in 2017 but still hasn't been awarded; which is concerning
4. Union Station Enhancements: Platform 24/25, a new south platform (28?), level boarding, etc. A winning bidder was supposed to have been selected in late 2018 (as announced in April 2018) but it still hasn't closed; also concerning

So 1/2 of 4 of the small pieces are in good shape and the others seem to be falling well behind before construction has even started. I don't expect the big/tricky pieces are in very good shape if the easy but time critical pieces are already running late.

 

[jje1000]

Metrolinx has numerous moving parts and they make it very difficult to keep track of those parts from one meeting to the next. Quarterly reports never mention tender IDs or their status. Rather than the wordy reports which are very light on detail, I would much prefer a simple table with "Tender ID", "Description of Content", "Status", "Target Completion Date". Status being in design, RFP, RFQ, Awarded, construction start, construction complete. TTC does a decent job of this in their newer capital reports.

There were 4 early works for RER which had been broken out of the large RER contracts because they were considered time critical to hit the completion date.

1. Barrie line: tendered and in progress
2. Union Station Rail Corridor East: EA complete, now in design
3. Union Station Rail Corridor West: Shifts around tracks for improved throughput and to make space for stations like Spadina. I believe this started the tendering process in 2017 but still hasn't been awarded; which is concerning
4. Union Station Enhancements: Platform 24/25, a new south platform (28?), level boarding, etc. A winning bidder was supposed to have been selected in late 2018 (as announced in April 2018) but it still hasn't closed; also concerning

So 1/2 of 4 of the small pieces are in good shape and the others seem to be falling well behind before construction has even started. I don't expect the big/tricky pieces are in very good shape if the easy but time critical pieces are already running late.

I feel that some of these remain unresolved/paused due to larger changes that have come with the new government and even the previous one- (the nature of station funding changing, the curveball hydrogen announcement, other internal stuff we don't know, etc.).

I'm not an expert on this, but I feel it's too early to claim RER is dead like some are doing- but Metrolinx incompetence or not, I feel that we will know what the PCs intend to do with RER by the middle of the year.

I think it may be worth asking Verster about the early RER tenders at the next town hall (Thursday, May 2nd, 7:00-8:30PM), to see if he provides a clear answer, or obfuscates.

 

[rbt]

I'm not an expert on this, but I feel it's too early to claim RER is dead like some are doing- but Metrolinx incompetence or not, I feel that we will know what the PCs intend to do with RER by the middle of the year.

Agreed. It's too early to it's dead or even changed in scope, but it's not too early to say the timeline has probably been stretched a bit; though the previous timeline was quite aggressive.

 

[crs1026]

^The tendering thing is doubly complicated by ML deciding (being told?) to let Infrastructure Ontario do the procurements. Lots of those RFQs and RFP’s are outstanding. It appears also that the money is not actually committed until the tenders have come in - release of an RFP doesn’t indicate approval to spend. There is a trip back through Finance and Treasury Board and Cabinet to get the money after the tender results are finalised.... and that's where the real decision is made.

I wonder if there is a hidden process to reimburse bidders for time and effort spent bidding on cancelled projects, IO can't have much credibility left around RER tenders.

RER was at best a castle in the sky. There was never a financial commitment, and whenever it came time to proceed, Wynne’s government had a million reasons why.the cheque wasn’t quite in the mail. The stall was quite deliberate IMHO. Even for freespending Liberals, there was sticker shock. A notional system was enough to generate photo ops, there was never an appetite for actual infrastructure.

The Tories will spend on a measured basis, releasing funds project by project. The end state will be what it is - incremental improvements rather than working towards a defined goal. The RER "dream system" was just puffery.

- Paul

 

[ADRM]

RER was at best a castle in the sky. There was never a financial commitment, and whenever it came time to proceed, Wynne’s government had a million reasons why.the cheque wasn’t quite in the mail.

RER enabling works began in 2015.

Even for freespending Liberals

In Wynne's last year in power, Ontario had the lowest per-capita program spending of any province in Canada.

 

[steveintoronto]

I think it may be worth asking Verster about the early RER tenders at the next town hall (Thursday, May 2nd, 7:00-8:30PM), to see if he provides a clear answer, or obfuscates.

He'll obfuscate. I'm already finding him stating things diametrically opposed to what he has in the past. The latest is his being on record (last Metrolinx meeting) as stating RE: Ontario Line: "...funded fully". I'll never forget that one, as it was worded backwards, but no matter which way you read it, it's false.
Edit to Clarify:
April 10, 2019 - Board Meeting @ 10:20 (watch for a number of quotable statements until 13:20)

incremental improvements rather than working towards a defined goal.

I see this for electrification. It will come down to whoever gets to DBFOM or more (up to totally private) a segment, say the UPX (just for an example). Metrolinx will retain ownership of the RoW and infrastructure already in place, but the 'franchisee' might decide to do it electric, for say a 50 year lease, at the end of which ownership resorts to the Province. I think Ontarians are in for an electric shock...

RER enabling works began in 2015.

It could be stated 'expansion works started in 2015'...I'm not disputing your statement, just questioning where we are now with a regime that is rewriting what's been said and done before?

 

[crs1026]

RER enabling works began in 2015.

On a notional and token basis, perhaps.

Have we seen any sort of listing of what these enabling works are, and when the enabling phase was to be complete, and what following works they would then enable?
If the program were ‘go’, and had a 2015 start date happened, where would we expect to be today? It hasn’t happened.
The full RER budget was first published in Board memos in 2017. The RER BCS was post 2015 iirc. When I get a chance I will revisit annual reports and business plans.
The cheque is not yet in the mail on this one.
- Paul

 

[steveintoronto]

The full RER budget was first published in Board memos in 2017. The RER BCS was post 2015 iirc. When I get a chance I will revisit annual reports and business plans.
The cheque is not yet in the mail on this one.

A classic case of a "Budget" only making space on the spreadsheet, not filling or fulfilling it. This is exactly what will happen with Ford's "$11.2B". It's sleight of hand rather than actual spending.

 

[Tuscani01]

He's not wrong... there are many projects that got approved due to their need for full RER implementation. These include the second track on the Stouffvile corridor, and the Davenport Diamond grade separation.

Metrolinx has a listing of other work that can be considered RER enabling work:

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/regionalplanning/rer/rer_work.aspx

 

[steveintoronto]

He's not wrong... there are many projects that got approved due to their need for full RER implementation. These include the second track on the Stouffvile corridor, and the Davenport Diamond grade separation.

Metrolinx has a listing of other work that can be considered RER enabling work:

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/regionalplanning/rer/rer_work.aspx

Including statements like:

A number of station renovations are also taking place across the GO network to support more frequent, electrified GO train service.

Metrolinx has over 200 projects worth over $16 billion already underway

First off, that was "then"...not now, and that's the classic sleight of hand as stated.

You might also be interested in

• The Big Move
• GO Electrification

From the link above! Is this along with the All Day Two Way to Kitchener by any chance?

It goes on and on..."Oh yeah, ready tomorrow, we've budgeted for it"

Guelph will see increased GO Train service in 2019 | GuelphMercury ...

https://www.guelphmercury.com/.../9086873-guelph-will-see-increased-go-train-servi...
Dec 17, 2018 - "This is an important step as we continue working with CN to deliver more service and offer two-way, all-day GO train service for people on the ...
Guelph joins call for faster, more frequent trains | GuelphMercury.com

https://www.guelphmercury.com/.../8639931-guelph-joins-call-for-faster-more-freque...
May 30, 2018 - Guelph councillors have passed a resolution calling on provincial leaders to commit to bring all-day, two-way GO train service to the city by ...

New freight route opens door for two-way, all-day ... - Guelph Mercury

https://www.guelphmercury.com/.../6726318-new-freight-route-opens-door-for-two-...
Jun 16, 2016 - And in the short term, the frequency of existing GO train service between Guelph and Toronto’s Union Station will be doubled in September, Sandals said Tuesday. ... It secured the deal with CN through Metrolinx, the regional transportation authority for the Greater Toronto and ...
Rail negotiations keep Guelph, Kitchener out of ... - Guelph Mercury

https://www.guelphmercury.com/.../9070743-rail-negotiations-keep-guelph-kitchener...
Dec 6, 2018 - According to a business case presented to the board of Metrolinx, two-day all-way GOtrains between Toronto and Guelph are expected to hit ...
'Waited far too long': Opposition motion calls for ... - Guelph Mercury

https://www.guelphmercury.com/.../9265738--waited-far-too-long-opposition-motion...
Apr 4, 2019 - On the track to two-way, all-day GO. ... The discussion of bringing two-way, all-day GOtrain service to Guelph and on to Kitchener has been a longtime promise on the provincial level, with the Ontario Liberals pledging to bring that service within 10 years during the 2014 provincial election.

Take special note of the last hit above:

The promise of bringing two-way, all-day GO train service to Guelph and Waterloo Region has been promised for many years — and one MPP says people need to know when that is actually going to happen.

On Thursday afternoon, Laura Mae Lindo, MPP for Kitchener Centre and the NDP's critic for anti-racism, and for citizenship and immigration services, will be putting forward a motion at Queen’s Park, calling for the provincial government to put forward firm financial and time commitments on extending more frequent train service to the area.

“Based on the feedback I’m getting from constituents in my riding and beyond, they’re pretty disheartened,” Lindo told the Mercury Tribune on Wednesday.
“They’ve waited far too long, and they’re losing jobs over this. They’re not necessarily confident that any government is going to follow through.”

Guelph MPP Mike Schreiner said he is in full support of the motion.

"It's absolutely essential to the economic vitality and the innovation corridor, and so there's so many strong arguments for it," he said.

"The minister keeps telling me that announcements are forthcoming and good news is coming. But yet, we haven't heard about any of that. We haven't heard any details yet. And there has been no announcement."

In Lindo’s motion, she is calling for a plan to be made available by June 6, the last sitting day at Queen’s Park ahead of the summer break.

“It’s just so the community knows what steps are going to be organized in the plan, they can be assured that resources have been provided to make the plan a reality.”

Lindo said her motion is similar to the one brought forward by fellow NDP MPP Catherine Fife in 2017, which called for the then ruling Liberals to commit to clear funding and timelines by April 2018.

At the end of 2018, during an announcement around two new trips being added to the Kitchener-Toronto line, Minister of Transportation Jeff Yurek said he hoped to have an announcement around bringing two-way, all-day GO to the line in the next 12 to 18 months.

Lindo said people cannot wait that long just for an announcement.

“Nobody wants surprise announcements. What they really want, and what they’re asking for very clearly, is a plan,” she said.

“Just tell us the plan, and then that way when they add, let’s say, one train in a year, we can say, ‘Oh, that’s Phase 1 of this broader plan.’”
[...]

https://www.guelphmercury.com/news-...-service-expansion-to-guelph-waterloo-region/

 

[steveintoronto]

^ Here's the latest 'plan'....and it certainly doesn't jibe with what posters above are beholden to:
GOVERNMENT, INFRASTRUCTUREIO to tackle GO RER with reworked planning team
Don Wall February 13, 2019

Infrastructure Ontario (IO) is revamping key planning and procurement practices as it prepares to take the second and third phases of the $10-billion-plus GO RER electrification project to market later this year.
Derrick Toigo, IO executive vice-president in charge of roads and transit, told delegates attending the Ontario Road Builders’ Association (ORBA) conference in Toronto Feb. 5 that the private firm Jacobs, owner’s engineer for Metrolinx, has taken on a more important and formal role in project planning and that IO will be announcing a new project staging strategy in the coming months.
Toigo also said IO was looking for ways to deliver more work to mid-tier Canadian contractors as huge consortiums expected to have significant international representation take on package 2 and 3 work on the RER (Regional Express Rail) project, and that IO was aiming to offer incentives to contractors to avoid major disruptions where possible as the builds proceed.
Each of the measures responds to criticisms levelled in the past by stakeholders.
“We have heard very clearly that there is pressure on the market about the ability to deliver these projects,” Toigo told the delegates.
“What we are trying to do with our partners is to figure out ways of working with you, with ORBA, and with other agencies and other stakeholders to figure out different ways to have you participate in our projects.”
A document titled GO Expansion Full Business Case that was approved by the Metrolinx board of directors in December put the total cost of the three phases of the RER project — the first-phase Early/Enabling Works, package 2 Off-Corridor projects and package 3 On-Corridor works (now called OnCorr) — at $16.2 billion.
The project will bring 15-minute service across the whole GO-owned network using new electrified trains. Construction of the final OnCorr phase is expected to start in 2021 with 2028 the targeted completion date.
Toigo posted a flow chart during his ORBA presentation that described the enhanced role Jacobs will be playing in planning RER alongside Metrolinx and IO.
“What we have done is we’ve taken a look at the expertise in the various organizations and determined which organizations are better able to perform the work,” he said in an interview.
“We have particular expertise in procurement and contract management, that’s what IO’s focus is, and Jacobs does the technical support. They are providing support to Metrolinx in performance requirements and scope development, and Metrolinx is the transit agency responsible for the delivery of transit so they define the planning, with the government, and the scope of the project, and they are the owners.”
He said the idea of the realignment of responsibilities developed out of conversations between Phil Verster and Ehren Cory, CEOs of Metrolinx and IO respectively, in recognition of the unprecedented complexity of the second and third phases of the RER project. The new integrated system was finalized last March.
Toigo said the RER project is not immune from the provincial government’s review of all major projects planned for the province. He said the government is doing its due diligence on the project and if the next phases receive a green light in the provincial budget, expected in late March, both package 2 and OnCorr could go to market with an RFP anticipated in late spring or early summer.
The new large-project staging measures will also be unveiled after the budget, said Toigo.
“You will see something coming out in the spring that will probably help you understand where projects are going in the next couple of years,” he told the ORBA audience.
“We don’t want all sorts of work at the same time creating unnecessary pressures on the market. While we want you to work, we want you to work with us effectively and encourage different folks to be part of our projects.”
Recognizing he was addressing roadbuilders, Toigo said there was a significant amount of work for ORBA contractors in various IO transit projects, with roads, bridges and other surface work required as part of such builds as the Finch, Hamilton, Hurontario and Eglinton LRT projects.
Among highway projects, Highway 407 East phase 2 and the Highway 427 expansion are under construction while Highway 401 widening with HOV lanes is in procurement.

https://canada.constructconnect.com...19/02/io-tackle-go-rer-reworked-planning-team

Toigo said the RER project is not immune from the provincial government’s review of all major projects planned for the province. He said the government is doing its due diligence on the project and if the next phases receive a green light in the provincial budget, expected in late March, both package 2 and OnCorr could go to market with an RFP anticipated in late spring or early summer.

So I put it to the 'believers'...what was in the Budget on this?

(Red emphasis added is mine)

 

[Tuscani01]

Except that article you've posted makes reference to moving onto phase 2 and 3 of the plan - which again proves the point that enabling work has been ongoing since 2015. Otherwise, we wouldn't be preparing for phase 2 and 3.

 

[steveintoronto]

Except that article you've posted makes reference to moving onto phase 2 and 3 of the plan - which again proves the point that enabling work has been ongoing since 2015. Otherwise, we wouldn't be preparing for phase 2 and 3.

Nobody disputed that, the dispute is where it goes after that.

Metrolinx has a listing of other work that can be considered RER enabling work:

I'd love to agree with you, but only contracts that have been issued are proceeding. The present catch phrase is "GO Expansion"...not "RER" or "Electrification".

if the next phases receive a green light in the provincial budget, expected in late March, both package 2 and OnCorr could go to market with an RFP anticipated in late spring or early summer.

Perhaps those more intimate with the Budget could indicate where that's addressed?

Here's the closest I can find:

Transit and transportation

The government announced its major subway plan on Wednesday, before the budget was presented. The premier may be especially focused on trains in tunnels, but his government has plans to do more than just build subways in Toronto. The Tories are picking up roughly where the Liberals left off when it comes to expanding GO train service throughout the GTA — the previous government was committed to a plan called “GO RER,” and, while the Tories have ditched that branding, they’ve retained the commitment to running trains every 15 minutes, in both directions, throughout the core of the GO rail network. The budget also confirms that the government will, as expected, “press pause” on a high-speed rail line from Toronto to London to Windsor, something the Liberals had committed to building.

https://www.tvo.org/article/three-things-you-need-to-know-about-ontarios-2019-budget

"retained the commitment"...stack it up with the rest...

Meantime, in digging to find any exact quote, I run across items like this:

Building transit faster
The Province’s historic funding for public transit includes the proposed new Ontario Line to help relieve subway overcrowding, and an expansion of GO Transit.

http://budget.ontario.ca/2019/index.html

And again, red emphasis mine.

 

[Tuscani01]

Well, the MPP for Oakville seems to say work is still ongoing, and quotes the same original timeline the Liberals used. Lakeshore line to be electrified and have 15-minute all day service according to this op-ed.

"These changes are all a part of a long-term provincial investment in the complete transformation of the GO Transit network in the coming decade. Starting in 2023, the Lakeshore West Line, which serves passengers from Hamilton to Toronto’s Union Station, will be upgraded to use more efficient electric trains. These trains will run on an electrified rail track, replacing the current fleet of diesel locomotives.

The plan for electrifying the Lakeshore West GO lines is on track. It will deliver better service, with increased frequency, quieter trains, lower emissions profile and decreased carbon footprint. These changes will transform opportunities for residents to travel using public transportation for work, travel or leisure."

https://www.insidehalton.com/opinion-story/9267306-addressing-our-transportation-needs/

Maybe he would be the best to ask, since he sounds so confident its happening?