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SmartTrack (Proposed)

WislaHD said:
Nah, they'll devolve funding authority to individual municipalities WHILE downloading more infrastructure and social services costs onto them.
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Don't forget the last time they're in power, the devolution of funding authority didn't happen - only the costs- and they certainly didn't follow through with the recommendations of the Golden report either.

AoD
 
The mayor was on Metro Morning today, doubling down and being dishonest as usual. He said that SmartTrack stations can be built in 7 years (not true), said city getting "subway-like" service to get around downtown, insists that he will not raise raise property taxes to pay for SmartTrack, repeated his line about critics ("what's their plan"), defended his campaign strategists who are consulting for Hydro privatization - dismissing it as "conspiracy theories".

http://podcast.cbc.ca/mp3/podcasts/metromorning_20161102_69956.mp3
 
salsa said:
The mayor was on Metro Morning today, doubling down and being dishonest as usual. He said that SmartTrack stations can be built in 7 years (not true), said city getting "subway-like" service to get around downtown, insists that he will not raise raise property taxes to pay for SmartTrack, repeated his line about critics ("what's their plan"), defended his campaign strategists who are consulting for Hydro privatization - dismissing it as "conspiracy theories".

http://podcast.cbc.ca/mp3/podcasts/metromorning_20161102_69956.mp3
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Did he actually say seven years? That is unquestionably false. Does Tory not tire of telling lies?
 
There is not much point in having ST stations in seven years if the RER trains and trackage and electrification and rolling stock that ST relies on aren't ready yet. Is he planning on using them as Farmers Markets until all that is ready ?
 
salsa said:
The mayor was on Metro Morning today, doubling down and being dishonest as usual. He said that SmartTrack stations can be built in 7 years (not true), said city getting "subway-like" service to get around downtown, insists that he will not raise raise property taxes to pay for SmartTrack, repeated his line about critics ("what's their plan"), defended his campaign strategists who are consulting for Hydro privatization - dismissing it as "conspiracy theories".

http://podcast.cbc.ca/mp3/podcasts/metromorning_20161102_69956.mp3
Click to expand...
I heard it this morning. It was laughable.
 
steveintoronto said:
Look, over there: Squirrel! What has that to do with Tory's utterly fantastic (in the truest sense of the word) von Munchausen scheme?
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Sorry, I was replying to the post directly above, which made reference that we should have a body that takes transit out of electorate (i.e. political process).

Is that etiquette that you have to include the quote, even if you are replying to the post immediately above?
 
SmartTrack could logistically have been built in 7 years, and in many places realistically could have been. In Ontario, difficult; in Toronto, impossible.
 
Last thing I heard, Tory might agree to raise property taxes as much as 2% in order to pay for SmartTrack.

If so, then it is worth it. The six additional heavy rail stations will cost $1.25 billion (not $2 or $3 billion as some posts suggested), that translates to $200 million per station, all of which are going to be quite useful.

However, it would be a very bad idea to sell revenue-generating assets in order to fund SmartTrack, or Eglinton West LRT. Both projects are useful, but not strategically important for the whole city to warrant such a sale. They should be funded from "renewable" revenues.

If they want to sell the Hydro or TPA in order to kick-start DRL, that might be reasonable (although I would have some doubts even then).
 
Having ST built within 7 years is very doable as is 2 years and only longer if they can't get some hands on the trains.

One of the primary benefits of using existing rail corridors is that it is not an all-or-nothing transit solution. Even though GO has added many interim stations and still isn't electrified in the last few years doesn't mean the system wasn't up and running for 50. They need to electrify each corridor and add the trains and level some of the stations to accessible EMU trains and that's it. To start the system all they need is a starting and ending point ie Union/Kennedy.

More stations, frequency, and endless fare debates do not have to stop it from opening. It could just run EMUs from Kennedy to Union non-stop to start every half hour to start. It would be a lousy start but the reality is that improved frequency, more stations, and fare integration does not have to be done for the service to start. Certainly the more of those things and the quicker they implement them all the better but it's not required.

Electrification and trains between 2 stations is all that's needed to get the system up and running. That's one of the many benefits of using existing infrastructure and improving on it........you don't have to wait for it all to get built to run the service.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
From CBC News:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...ects-funding-deal-property-tax-hike-1.3832373

So Tory wanted to sell city assets in order to basically facilitate provincial initiatives? That's swell - guess who will be in the lineup to buy them up?

AoD
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That would be a very unpopular move. Polls already show how unpopular the Province's privatization was, and further privatization will be, ditto Toronto Hydro...just Googling to reference on that, only to find this...does Tory think this will be forgotten?
Tory zaps speculation of a Toronto Hydro sale

By Jenny Yuen, Toronto Sun

First posted: Saturday, January 09, 2016 06:31 PM EST | Updated: Saturday, January 09, 2016 06:47 PM EST
Mayor John Tory pulled the plug Saturday on talk of privatizing Toronto Hydro or the Toronto Parking Authority.



While the idea of selling off a portion of hydro was brought up during his transition into the mayor’s office, Tory stressed there are no discussions on the table to push ahead with that plan.

“I’ve heard about Hydro before because it’s come up over the years many times,” the mayor said during a skating event in Scarborough. “The Parking Authority, there’s been not a peep of that since I’ve been the mayor, so I don’t know where that came from.”

Tory said he is often approached with ideas of “every description you can imagine" including a suggestion to sell the entire Gardiner Expressway or declare Toronto its own province.

“People hear these things, but there is nothing in front of me,” he said. “There hasn’t been. I’m not expecting anything, I’m not expecting any reports or proposals with respect to hydro or the parking authority.”

When asked whether the sales might be something worth considering, Tory said he was not going to speculate.
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http://www.torontosun.com/2016/01/09/tory-zaps-speculation-of-a-toronto-hydro-sale

Well, well, Johnny...your habit get you into trouble again? NotsosmartTrack is tracking in the dirt.

From Alvin's CBC link:
Tory said those assets could include Toronto Hydro, the Toronto Parking Authority and other real estate. When asked if the city is going to sell Toronto Hydro to pay for transit, he said: "I don't know."
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AlvinofDiaspar said:
Don't forget the last time they're in power, the devolution of funding authority didn't happen - only the costs- and they certainly didn't follow through with the recommendations of the Golden report either.
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From the Mississauga Council website:
Ontario municipalities receive only 10 cents of every tax dollar raised in Ontario, yet own 65 per cent of the capital infrastructure such as roads, parks, stormwater drains and sewers, community centres and more.

“The City of Mississauga, like all municipalities in Ontario, is heavily reliant on property taxes as a source of revenue,” said Janice Baker, City Manager and Chief Administrative Officer. “Municipalities need more diverse and growing revenue sources in order to deliver quality services while keeping property taxes affordable.”
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City of Toronto Act provides for extra tax-raising vehicles, other than the few other conurbations that have a unique act derived from the Municipal Act, GO's service area is outside of Toronto's tax-raising powers, where there are no areas with tax raising devices beyond the property tax Municipal Act allows.

Tory doesn't know when to stop digging on this.
 
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crs1026 said:
There is not much point in having ST stations in seven years if the RER trains and trackage and electrification and rolling stock that ST relies on aren't ready yet. Is he planning on using them as Farmers Markets until all that is ready ?
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This is a really crucial point that's going to go critical very soon. All well and good that RER is in the distance. We get that, no sign of electrification let alone RFIs let alone RFQs for EMUs, for years to come. Probably a decade if ever.

Tory could do *far better* by admitting the defeat of SmartTrack in any form envisaged, and start campaigning, at next to no cost, for Metrolinx via GO to get an early version of RER up and running between Bramalea and Union (perhaps with an alternative platform there, think UPX low level) using presently or imminently redundant stock (F59s, coaches presently fallow waiting for refurb) to get that corridor doing 15 min day commuter service within the next year.

Tory gets his victory, Toronto gets RER west, and Metrolinx gets to prove the utility of the Western Corridor, all at next to no cost! And this time for real within a year. And taxes won't have to go up! What's not to like about this? The colour scheme of the seats?

"RER proper is coming" whisper the futurists...fine, so when they come, replace the redundant stock. Someone (plural) hasn't learned how to 'make do' with GO rolling stock, or at least, the corporate memory is short. GO *used to* do very well with making do. That has to return...we need service on the Western Corridor and we need it now, and airport travellers need their train back. The usage stats prove the need for GO service on the Western stretch to Bramalea. The sooner started, the sooner intersecting bus feeder lines can interconnect, and then when the "real" RER starts, there's no 'learning curve' on very expensive equipment being under-utilized.
 
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Today's TorStar:
By San GrewalUrban Affairs Reporter
Wed., Nov. 2, 2016

Mayor John Tory and senior city staff are being condemned in Mississauga after Toronto made public a $470 million LRT funding expectation of the local airport authority and Mississauga — without telling officials in the neighbouring city.

“Mr. Tory, we’re not going to pay for your wall,” Councillor Jim Tovey bellowed during a committee meeting Wednesday, comparing the Toronto mayor to Donald Trump, who expects Mexico to pay for a border wall it doesn’t even want.

Tovey joined a chorus of staff and council voices expressing outrage that Toronto would publicly reveal plans to get Mississauga to pay for part of Tory’s Smart Track plan, without even asking if the city supports the idea.

“There has been no request of us,” said Mississauga mayor Bonnie Crombie. After the meeting, Crombie, Tovey and Mississauga city manager Janice Baker voiced their incredulity over the note in a public report from Toronto’s city manager this week that assumes Mississauga and the Greater Toronto Airports Authority (GTAA) will fund $470 million toward the extension of the Eglinton West LRT into Mississauga and Pearson airport. The report assumes a $1.18 billion contribution from Toronto, and a $822.9 million contribution from the federal government toward the $2.47 billion cost of the Eglinton West LRT extension.

“That is just a crazy number in our world,” Baker said of the $470 million, acknowledging that it’s unclear how much of the money Toronto expects Mississauga to pay and how much the GTAA is expected to contribute.

Baker said Mississauga’s current infrastructure and capital costs for planned projects — funded primarily by the city’s property tax base — wouldn’t be sustainable if Mississauga had to pay even a small portion of the assumed amount.

Asked to respond to the anger voiced inside Mississauga City Hall Wednesday, Tory replied through spokesperson Keerthana Kamalavasan. “The Mayor has a close and productive relationship with Mayor Crombie. . . . City of Toronto staff have been in contact with their colleagues in Mississauga about this important project.”

Kamalavasan said a “formal request” will now be made of Mississauga council to gauge “their interest” in extending the LRT project to Pearson airport.

After the Mississauga committee meeting, Crombie didn’t sound particularly congenial.

“Let’s call it a non-starter,” she said, referring to the surprise funding request. “Finding out from the newspaper is not what I call ideal.”

Crombie and Baker said they have no idea how Toronto reached the $470 million figure and what actual benefit the LRT line, to run primarily along Eglinton Ave. in Toronto, would have for Mississauga taxpayers. The Toronto report shows one possible stop on the Toronto-Mississauga border just south of the airport and two other possible stops in lands controlled by the GTAA.

Toronto city manager Peter Wallace was asked why details of the $470 million funding expectation were not shared with Mississauga officials before his report was made public this week. He was also asked how the figure was reached and what analysis was done to ensure Mississauga would only be asked to pay its fair share.

City spokesperson Wynna Brown responded in an email: “The City Manager’s report does not request $470 million, but requests the City of Mississauga and the GTAA to formally, through their Council and Board respectively, to indicate whether they are interested in this extension from Renforth to Pearson.”

The GTAA didn’t answer directly when asked if the authority knew of the $470 million funding assumption before Wallace’s report went public. “The (GTAA) welcomes the recommendations released…by City of Toronto staff regarding priority transit lines,” read a statement sent to the Star.

Crombie told the Star it makes little sense to release a dollar figure to the public without any real idea of how the $470 million was calculated. “If they know how that figure was reached and how they determined the fair cost for Mississauga, they didn’t tell us before making the ask.”

Regarding how the dollar figure was reached, Brown said it is a “high order estimate,” describing it as a “placeholder estimate until more detailed design can be undertaken in partnership with the City of Mississauga and GTAA.”

Tovey was concerned, given recent controversies in Toronto about transit expansion, including the debate over whether to build a subway or an LRT extension to Scarborough.

“This could be potentially unfair to the taxpayers of Mississauga,” said Tovey, who along with other councillors called on provincial transit agency Metrolinx to step in and take over negotiations between Toronto and Mississauga.

Metrolinx told the Star that the provincial ministry of transportation and Metrolinx “are working with the municipalities and GTAA. Decisions will not be made on the project until funding is committed.”

Baker said the LRT might not even connect to the airport, if Toronto has to rely on Mississauga for funding.

“We have our own transit priorities. We have to look at the Dundas (St.) corridor, how we are going to provide increased transit on our lakeshore, and we have our own Hurontario LRT to think about.”
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https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...0-million-toronto-lrt-funding-assumption.html

Tory is going from bad to worse. He'd be best off just admitting it's a flop, and then working with Metrolinx and QP to find out what can work, and soon, and affordable.

Like an early version of the Western Corridor RER light: Use existing redundant F59s and triple refurbishment-waiting coaches for 15 minute schedule runs Bramalea to Union. It could be up and running within a year.
 
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