W. K. Lis
Superstar
And builing HRT subways will not jack up the city's debt even more? The problem is the sprawl in the outer 416 and 905 works against HRT subways. A downtown relief line should be subway because of the density in the inner 416.
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Should Transit City be cancelled? A re-prioritization of how to allocate the funding.
- Thread starter Fresh Start
- Start date
And builing HRT subways will not jack up the city's debt even more? The problem is the sprawl in the outer 416 and 905 works against HRT subways. A downtown relief line should be subway because of the density in the inner 416.
kEiThZ
Superstar
^ That depends. I really doubt that the incremental cost of operations for a Sheppard extension, a short distance to say Agincourt is really going to be more expensive than the cost of maintaining the SELRT (yards, tracks, vehicle/fleet management of another type, stops and all).
Ditto for a Bloor-Danforth extension to STC. Is a 2 stop extension really going to be cheaper than a LRT from Kennedy to Malvern? They can't even reduce the bus schedule after extending to Malvern, since every bus serving Malvern serves some other part of Scarborough as well, and the bus service is required to bring Malvernites to the station.
Ditto for a Bloor-Danforth extension to STC. Is a 2 stop extension really going to be cheaper than a LRT from Kennedy to Malvern? They can't even reduce the bus schedule after extending to Malvern, since every bus serving Malvern serves some other part of Scarborough as well, and the bus service is required to bring Malvernites to the station.
Fresh Start
Banned
The reason that Toronto is not getting more subways is simple… lack of visionary and creative thinking at the top. There are countless alternate revenue streams that the TTC can pursue for funding of subway projects yet the only avenue we opt for is the Federal/Provincial gov’t. By comparison, freight rail infrastructure and operations are funded almost entirely by the private sector. Rail maintenance, replacement, and expansion of track, structures and equipment by Class I railroads (those with annual operating revenues of over $250 million) is almost totally funded by income from operations by these companies. Smaller short line and regional railroads tend to be the major recipient of provincial and local funding, which is often provided through general fund expenditures awarded on a competitive, nationwide basis. Present finance arrangements are just inadequate for maintaining and improving transportation system performance by expanding capacity or reducing the costs of it.
Finance reforms that promote productivity gains by targeting private sector investment to projects, are the better option. Early involvement of the private sector can bring creativity, efficiency and capital to address complex transportation problems facing local governments. Under public-private partnership arrangements such as build-operate-transfer, build-own-operate-transfer and build-transfer-operate; tax-exempt private activity bonds may be issued for rail projects. Standardization of procedures, the use of performance specifications, risk allocation and value-for-money objectives would make for a smoother operation than the TTC’s frenetic amount of supplemental requirements and time spent in contract amendments to reflect marketplace realities missed earlier e.g. the ballooning debt of SELRT from $555 million to $1.189 billion. Both Montreal and Vancouver's systems are partially funded by the private sector and now both cities can boast higher-order transit networks larger than our's.
Misperceptions about P3s can be a distraction from the real issues. None of the following are necessarily true: that non-compete clauses are always part of P3s with a long-term lease component; that a P3 is a synonym for tolls and with that toll increases are inevitable, resulting in windfall profits; nor that the public sector loses total control of the facility. Au contraire, it is often the private sector that’s exploited by the public sector's superfluous demands. It is important to ensure that the private sector has the proper motivations to protect the public interest, while allowing investors to meet a return on the investment that is in line with the risk they take.
Finance reforms that promote productivity gains by targeting private sector investment to projects, are the better option. Early involvement of the private sector can bring creativity, efficiency and capital to address complex transportation problems facing local governments. Under public-private partnership arrangements such as build-operate-transfer, build-own-operate-transfer and build-transfer-operate; tax-exempt private activity bonds may be issued for rail projects. Standardization of procedures, the use of performance specifications, risk allocation and value-for-money objectives would make for a smoother operation than the TTC’s frenetic amount of supplemental requirements and time spent in contract amendments to reflect marketplace realities missed earlier e.g. the ballooning debt of SELRT from $555 million to $1.189 billion. Both Montreal and Vancouver's systems are partially funded by the private sector and now both cities can boast higher-order transit networks larger than our's.
Misperceptions about P3s can be a distraction from the real issues. None of the following are necessarily true: that non-compete clauses are always part of P3s with a long-term lease component; that a P3 is a synonym for tolls and with that toll increases are inevitable, resulting in windfall profits; nor that the public sector loses total control of the facility. Au contraire, it is often the private sector that’s exploited by the public sector's superfluous demands. It is important to ensure that the private sector has the proper motivations to protect the public interest, while allowing investors to meet a return on the investment that is in line with the risk they take.
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
Time to Trash Transit City
February 20, 2010
By MIKE STROBEL
Read More: http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/mike_strobel/2010/02/20/12963476.html
#######################################################################
Let’s sink Transit City. Tram City. Wham-Bam-Tram City.
Before it sinks us like Atlantis. Why? Well, the answer lies in the warm bosom of Mother Earth downtown — beneath the spires of Bay St., beneath the hotels, the convention halls, the traffic.
It’s PATH, a useful and commonsense thing City Hall has done for us. And thus very rare. PATH is the largest underground retail complex in the world — 27 km of tunnels housing 1,200 shops.
It never rains or snows. The walkways never ice up. There are no traffic jams. No stalled vehicles. No red lights to run. No frozen rail signals. No cussing drivers. The worst collisions are between fat guys walking.
There’s a plan afoot to double PATH, it’s so successful. It has done what planners hoped: Unclog downtown sidewalks and keep pedestrians snug and safe. That’s because it’s separate and underground — a boon in The Great White North, even in as mild a winter as this one.
What else is underground? Bing, bang, bong. Exactly. A subway.
What is mostly not underground? What will worsen the madcap world of snow, sleet, year-round bicycle lanes and drivers just in from the tropics?
You got it. Transit City. Mayor David Miller’s Transitopia.
Want a glimpse of Miller’s and Howard Moscoe’s and Adam Giambrone’s vision?
Spend the day hauling your sorry ass along St. Clair W. By car, bike or on foot. Even by streetcar. Lots of empty seats. Only a rabid Transitopian would still embrace Transit City.
Or hop on the Orient Express, as I like to call it, along Spadina. That streetcar right-of-way has done diddly-squat to speed travel through Chinatown, while hurting parking and aesthetics.
Now, imagine St. Clairs and Spadinas all over the place and voila: The $8.3-billion (and not a penny more, right?) Transit City. Streetcars masquerading as LRT will cruise such far-flung main drags as Finch, Sheppard, Jane, Don Mills and Lake Shore Blvd. — gumming up traffic as they go.
#######################################################################
February 20, 2010
By MIKE STROBEL
Read More: http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/mike_strobel/2010/02/20/12963476.html
#######################################################################
Let’s sink Transit City. Tram City. Wham-Bam-Tram City.
Before it sinks us like Atlantis. Why? Well, the answer lies in the warm bosom of Mother Earth downtown — beneath the spires of Bay St., beneath the hotels, the convention halls, the traffic.
It’s PATH, a useful and commonsense thing City Hall has done for us. And thus very rare. PATH is the largest underground retail complex in the world — 27 km of tunnels housing 1,200 shops.
It never rains or snows. The walkways never ice up. There are no traffic jams. No stalled vehicles. No red lights to run. No frozen rail signals. No cussing drivers. The worst collisions are between fat guys walking.
There’s a plan afoot to double PATH, it’s so successful. It has done what planners hoped: Unclog downtown sidewalks and keep pedestrians snug and safe. That’s because it’s separate and underground — a boon in The Great White North, even in as mild a winter as this one.
What else is underground? Bing, bang, bong. Exactly. A subway.
What is mostly not underground? What will worsen the madcap world of snow, sleet, year-round bicycle lanes and drivers just in from the tropics?
You got it. Transit City. Mayor David Miller’s Transitopia.
Want a glimpse of Miller’s and Howard Moscoe’s and Adam Giambrone’s vision?
Spend the day hauling your sorry ass along St. Clair W. By car, bike or on foot. Even by streetcar. Lots of empty seats. Only a rabid Transitopian would still embrace Transit City.
Or hop on the Orient Express, as I like to call it, along Spadina. That streetcar right-of-way has done diddly-squat to speed travel through Chinatown, while hurting parking and aesthetics.
Now, imagine St. Clairs and Spadinas all over the place and voila: The $8.3-billion (and not a penny more, right?) Transit City. Streetcars masquerading as LRT will cruise such far-flung main drags as Finch, Sheppard, Jane, Don Mills and Lake Shore Blvd. — gumming up traffic as they go.
#######################################################################
fanoftoronto
Active Member
^^^^ That's a very crude way of pointing out the worse things in Transit City.
Don't agree with some of what he says though.
Don't agree with some of what he says though.
nfitz
Superstar
You know, I really don't look in the Sun not ... not since it stopped carrying Bloom County at least ...
... is that typical of the level of journalism in it? I know it's quite right-wing (which I never understood, as I figured their market audience would be more working class) ... but I hadn't realised that it was so poorly written!
... is that typical of the level of journalism in it? I know it's quite right-wing (which I never understood, as I figured their market audience would be more working class) ... but I hadn't realised that it was so poorly written!
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
What a story from the Toronto Sun. The Toronto Ball of Fire. The Fire in the Sky. Of Current Events.
Was it great? Razmataz - you bet your sweet bippy it was. The best around. Nothing's going to keep us down.
Why was it fantastic? Because it was written. Written for a newspaper. In the city of Toronto. Boop da dee doop - need I say more?
You want to experience something that is not a good read? Just try skipping down to your local library, yet another useless program offered by our socialist city hall, and browse the section on Russian Literature.
Zap bif bang. Plodding vodka-soaked words all strung together with little squiggles between them. Etch. Saying in a million words what I could say in two: Russia sucks.
Thank god for this newspaper. Banana rama ding dong. It's what keeps the economy humming.
Was it great? Razmataz - you bet your sweet bippy it was. The best around. Nothing's going to keep us down.
Why was it fantastic? Because it was written. Written for a newspaper. In the city of Toronto. Boop da dee doop - need I say more?
You want to experience something that is not a good read? Just try skipping down to your local library, yet another useless program offered by our socialist city hall, and browse the section on Russian Literature.
Zap bif bang. Plodding vodka-soaked words all strung together with little squiggles between them. Etch. Saying in a million words what I could say in two: Russia sucks.
Thank god for this newspaper. Banana rama ding dong. It's what keeps the economy humming.
The Mad Navigator
Banned
You just have to love Mike Strobel and his Grade 5 English writing skills.
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
Hey! Be nice to fifth graders.
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
These aren't free riders either. These are existing riders who are being funnelled into the system by YRT/VIVA, none of the TTC routes that operate in York Region actually terminate at Finch. Even if we could build the RHC to plan without the subway there will still be riders who will take the BRT/LRT down to Finch/Steeles to access Toronto. Riders would still have to pay an additional fare be it at Finch, Steeles, or RHC. The TTC would have to take on additional operational considerations, additional downstream capacity, larger fleet plus more trains operating at one time due to the lengthened subway.