Kenny
Active Member
Rental prices don't seem to depend a whole lot on the age of the condo. A 2 bedroom condo will cost $2000 a month to rent in downtown Toronto whether the building is 30 years old or 30 days old.
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Should i buy an old condo?
- Thread starter Somayeh
- Start date
whatever
Senior Member
I've bought in two older buildings now and have had mixed experiences.
The first one was a hundred year old boutique-y kind of building (something like 25-30 units), and the condo fees were ridiculously low, but there were zero amenities and to be honest I had some sketchy neighbours (I packed up and moved out when the guy running the crack den down the hall kept leaving his gas stove on all night). I made money on the condo, and it was an ok place to call home, but the combination of no on site security, a weak condo board, and piles of crackheads made me leave.
The second one is a much larger two-tower complex, maybe 25 years old, and I greatly prefer it. Nice big units, lots of tenants that have been in the building for decades, pleasant staff, and amenities I actually use for the most part. The fees are a little higher than I would like, but because we are using the facilities I figure it at least saves me the cost of two gym memberships. There's a good reserve fund as well, and the common areas are being reasonably maintained, so I'm seeing value for my money
The first one was a hundred year old boutique-y kind of building (something like 25-30 units), and the condo fees were ridiculously low, but there were zero amenities and to be honest I had some sketchy neighbours (I packed up and moved out when the guy running the crack den down the hall kept leaving his gas stove on all night). I made money on the condo, and it was an ok place to call home, but the combination of no on site security, a weak condo board, and piles of crackheads made me leave.
The second one is a much larger two-tower complex, maybe 25 years old, and I greatly prefer it. Nice big units, lots of tenants that have been in the building for decades, pleasant staff, and amenities I actually use for the most part. The fees are a little higher than I would like, but because we are using the facilities I figure it at least saves me the cost of two gym memberships. There's a good reserve fund as well, and the common areas are being reasonably maintained, so I'm seeing value for my money
Lizthevw
New Member
The problem with tall buildings is that they are subject to greater wind pressure and therefore moisture issues, and fixing them is very expensive. I had one Condo built in the 70's that we took over the engineering management of, where it was cheaper to knock the building down and start over than to repair. At that point, what as a unit owner do you really own?
Somayeh
New Member
Thanks everybody, lots of good tips 
Lizthevw, if I may ask, is it only the old condos that would face this moisture problem (i.e. would a tall new condo face the same issue some years down the road? or are new condos built in a totally different way and they won't face this issue at all?)? The condos I am thinking of are by the lake, so wind is definitely present and your point could be important in that case. How would I even know if the condo is facing this issue? Is there any type of inspection I can do? Thanks!
Lizthevw, if I may ask, is it only the old condos that would face this moisture problem (i.e. would a tall new condo face the same issue some years down the road? or are new condos built in a totally different way and they won't face this issue at all?)? The condos I am thinking of are by the lake, so wind is definitely present and your point could be important in that case. How would I even know if the condo is facing this issue? Is there any type of inspection I can do? Thanks!Lizthevw
New Member
Hi Someyeh,
Simple answer is that there are no guarantees. Ever since man moved into the first cave, moisture problems have been an issue, and despite what sales people will tell you, there is no guaranteed solution. Some designs work out better than others, but many buildings are designed and/or built poorly even today. On top of that, as seals age they dry, shrink and crack, and water is persistent in trying to get in. Do check condo maintenance records for indications of existing or previous water issues, and make sure you get a good inspection. I no longer work as a Building Science Engineer, but when I did, some persistent problems with the building envelope weren't solved even after numerous attempts and vast expenditures.
I don't mean to scare you. Afterall, many condos can go on decade after decade, and even though they will have expensive maintenace to perform at times (windows and roofs for instance) they remain viable places to live. Just look at the abundance of mature buildings in New York City that people fight for a space in. I would suggest keeping a healthy reserve fund of your own in case of one time special charges.
Simple answer is that there are no guarantees. Ever since man moved into the first cave, moisture problems have been an issue, and despite what sales people will tell you, there is no guaranteed solution. Some designs work out better than others, but many buildings are designed and/or built poorly even today. On top of that, as seals age they dry, shrink and crack, and water is persistent in trying to get in. Do check condo maintenance records for indications of existing or previous water issues, and make sure you get a good inspection. I no longer work as a Building Science Engineer, but when I did, some persistent problems with the building envelope weren't solved even after numerous attempts and vast expenditures.
I don't mean to scare you. Afterall, many condos can go on decade after decade, and even though they will have expensive maintenace to perform at times (windows and roofs for instance) they remain viable places to live. Just look at the abundance of mature buildings in New York City that people fight for a space in. I would suggest keeping a healthy reserve fund of your own in case of one time special charges.
Somayeh
New Member
Wow! This was a really complete response Lizthevw, thanks! I agree, in the end, there is the risk and one shoudl have a reserve fund for any special charges. Thank you!
Condo George
Active Member
Careful, older usually carry very high maint fees which will hinder value moving forward, amongst other issues, Bay St prime example.
CN Tower
Banned
Boy, that's rich- the guy who makes a living flipping pre-construction spec units tells a potential buyer that it's not a good idea to buy an existing one.
Condo George, i thought you agreed to save us your blatant sales pitches. What happened? Is the market slowing down?
Condo George
Active Member
Geez, I am laughing so hard . Your too funny CN.
greenleaf
Senior Member
And 15-20 years from now all the condos being built now will have the same high maintenance fees.
cdr108
Senior Member
unless you're selling and buying a new one every 5 years, at which time CG will be more than happy to help you with those hefty commissions he'll get.
Eug
Senior Member
Actually, in my experience a lot of older condos can have lower condo fees.
With so many high-rise pre-builds you're locked to the higher end living (in terms of amenities) that builders are trying to sell these days. While the fees start at moderate prices they go up quickly and within 5 years are pretty high. With many older and smaller buildings, the fees are already well established and stable, topping out in the moderate range, and many of these buildings already have decent reserve funds, so you're not paying extra to build up deficient ones.
BTW, has there EVER been a condo that didn't dramatically increase fees in the first few years while maintaining a sound financial plan? Every single condo pre-build I've ever seen has had fees jump hugely in the first few years. Well, there was one down the street that tried to put a cap on condo fee increases, but after an engineering assessment landed telling them about serious repairs they needed to do, the condo corp basically went bankrupt. (This was in the King and Bathurst area, a decade ago.)
With so many high-rise pre-builds you're locked to the higher end living (in terms of amenities) that builders are trying to sell these days. While the fees start at moderate prices they go up quickly and within 5 years are pretty high. With many older and smaller buildings, the fees are already well established and stable, topping out in the moderate range, and many of these buildings already have decent reserve funds, so you're not paying extra to build up deficient ones.
BTW, has there EVER been a condo that didn't dramatically increase fees in the first few years while maintaining a sound financial plan? Every single condo pre-build I've ever seen has had fees jump hugely in the first few years. Well, there was one down the street that tried to put a cap on condo fee increases, but after an engineering assessment landed telling them about serious repairs they needed to do, the condo corp basically went bankrupt. (This was in the King and Bathurst area, a decade ago.)
ikarun
New Member
Heating type
I'm also weighing buying an old condo (20-30 years) vs a newly built one. Most of the older condos have HVAC units in the windows or electric baseboard heating...is that something to be concerned about? Anyone have any experience with those?
I'm also weighing buying an old condo (20-30 years) vs a newly built one. Most of the older condos have HVAC units in the windows or electric baseboard heating...is that something to be concerned about? Anyone have any experience with those?
GraceCondos
Active Member
Condos, and houses, with electric heat are a tough sale because of the hydro bill. I'd stay away unless hydro is included in maint fees.
dt_toronto_geek
Superstar
A friend of mine lived in a condo exactly like this, after a couple of hydro bills he was hesitant to heat or use the A/C in the summer. It was a great two storey apartment, save for the electric consumption. Some older condos are like this but it's not the norm to have window shakers and electric heat throughout, at least not downtown. There are a few co-ops that come to mind which used to be apartment rentals that are like this too.