RedRocket191
Senior Member
Chicken or egg?
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Sheppard Subway - Development Impacts
- Thread starter Mike in TO
- Start date
Chicken or egg?
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
I had chicken for dinner last night, so I'll take eggs.
With the 'what came first' question settled, now is a good time to note that the Sheppard subway ridership figures for 2007-2008 are 11.09% higher than the 2005-2006 figures.
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Dan416
Senior Member
Is the ridership increasing enough to justify the subway? Is it enough to justify making the Sheppard LRT subway instead?
299 bloor call control.
Senior Member
I think in 30 years, the Sheppard Subway will be seen as "justified".
That's in 30 years.
The question then will become: "was it worth waiting 40 years for it to be finally justified, or would it have been better to have 40 years of a subway on a more justified route to begin with?"
the Sheppard Subway will no doubt be forever questioned one way or another... if we had gotten a couple other subways at the same time as Sheppard, there is no doubt the question wouldn't even be asked. It's just that we were screwed over and left with the least justifiable one.
That's in 30 years.
The question then will become: "was it worth waiting 40 years for it to be finally justified, or would it have been better to have 40 years of a subway on a more justified route to begin with?"
the Sheppard Subway will no doubt be forever questioned one way or another... if we had gotten a couple other subways at the same time as Sheppard, there is no doubt the question wouldn't even be asked. It's just that we were screwed over and left with the least justifiable one.
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
The Sheppard line was supposed to be much longer, which automatically cancels out most criticism...what no one ever mentions is that an Eglinton stubway would have been equally as "unjustifiable" as a Sheppard stubway. A 5.5km DRL from Pape to Union would have been better, though.
nfitz
Superstar
As I normally disagree with most that skarberiankhatru writes, I thought I'd agree for once.
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Undying42
Guest
That's debatable. Without the condo intrusion that's occured along Sheppard East, that subway would in no shape or form outpreform a similar stubway along Eglinton. Sheppard can never stretch full-length across the city, much the way BD has or Eglinton certainly can. Take the tunneled mid-section of Eglinton-Crosstown for instance. Let's call that a stubway and suppose nothing else gets built- that length would still outdo the Sheppard Line, even if built to it's full potential from Downsview to SCC. The catchments surrounding it and closer proximity to downtown would see Eglinton victorious.
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
No, it's not debatable: the Eglinton stubway would have been a few stops west of Eglinton West station.
Dan416
Senior Member
I'd agree a DRL would have been preferable to either Eglinton or Sheppard. But I still think Eglinton and Sheppard and extensions on all lines and elimination of the SRT are all important.
Hypnotoad
Senior Member
It is the classic debate. Sheppard will morph into somewhat of a success (justifiable, that's not for me to say) but it can never live up to its full potential unless the line is completed. York U-SCC is the best line, if you ask me, with interlining stops running parallel to the Spadina extension before it turns at Downview and heads east ot SCC. But no one is asking me anyway.
There has been significant intensification along this corridor and that has, in part, shown a sizable bump in ridership. What hasn't been proven is whether these condos would have been built without the subway. You see, what Sheppard has that Eglinton doesn't is a nearby highway. I'm partly convinced that one of the lures of NYCC and Sheppard is its proximity to the 401 and 404 so that drivers can commute from there to other areas not accessible by transit (MCC, SCC, Markham, Sunnybrook, etc etc).
Also, I agree with scarberiankhatru that an Eglinton stub would prove no more useful then a Sheppard stub. Stubs are bad. Full-lines are good. Iron helps us play.
There has been significant intensification along this corridor and that has, in part, shown a sizable bump in ridership. What hasn't been proven is whether these condos would have been built without the subway. You see, what Sheppard has that Eglinton doesn't is a nearby highway. I'm partly convinced that one of the lures of NYCC and Sheppard is its proximity to the 401 and 404 so that drivers can commute from there to other areas not accessible by transit (MCC, SCC, Markham, Sunnybrook, etc etc).
Also, I agree with scarberiankhatru that an Eglinton stub would prove no more useful then a Sheppard stub. Stubs are bad. Full-lines are good. Iron helps us play.
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
For Sheppard, the timing was perfect as the demographics in the area were changing quickly, the housing stock was beginning to age, people were ripping down every bungalow in sight, etc. There's no way we'd see as many blocks of Leaside or Forest Hill getting redeveloped. And if Eglinton is an urban corridor (at least in the central part) and Sheppard is a suburban corridor, redevelopment on Sheppard has the potential to create an urban corridor whereas on Eglinton you risk tampering with an existing one.