Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[micheal_can]

And if you were banned, we wouldn't waste space on all these useless trolling discussions

I am trying to learn about the various projects. I never said that it should be one or the other.I have asked why one was better than the other.

 

[ARG1]

I am trying to learn about the various projects. I never said that it should be one or the other.I have asked why one was better than the other.

I could've bought that maybe 2 years ago?

But it's really hard to believe you when you have a tendency to actively ignore what people tell you. You say 1 thing, people tell you why you're wrong, then 2 pages later you bring up the same point again and keep digging deeper.

 

[micheal_can]

I could've bought that maybe 2 years ago?

But it's really hard to believe you when you have a tendency to actively ignore what people tell you. You say 1 thing, people tell you why you're wrong, then 2 pages later you bring up the same point again and keep digging deeper.

Well,now that I have learned what I need about why people think that it must be cut and cover, I will accept it and wait for the announcement as to what they do.

 

[kEiThZ]

Well,now that I have learned what I need about why people think that it must be cut and cover, I will accept it and wait for the announcement as to what they do.

Can't wait for you to bring up the same nonsense in another thread or this one a month from now.

It's unfortunate the mods here haven't cracked down on your behaviour.

 

[Northern Light]

Couldn't a pushbox, like that used for HuLRT at Lakeshore Line be used to get a cut and cover line under the Stouffville line? Seems like launching a TBM would be considerably more complex.

I don't believe so....... let me show you why:

In the above, lets assume your subway/metro is approaching from the west towards the Stouffville Line

Notice that immediately east of Kennedy is Highland Creek. If you are going under the GO Line you do not have room available to get down to the right grade for a push box, post-Highland Creek.

If you're going under Highland Creek, you're not going under cut-and-cover. I mean, in theory, its not utterly impossible, but you would have to coffer dam the creek and divert the flow........in practice, I don't see that happening.

Additionally, assuming you're continuing east in the Sheppard Corridor, you have the CP mainline only ~600M to the east.

Going up and then coming down again in a very short span is an issue.

****

Its not inconceivable to go elevated through the entire section, but because of the creek and the 2 railways, you have to stay constantly elevated, at a height that allows for double-stack freight/GO and catenary underneath, The challenge of doing that, and finding room for a station, and feathering that into a connection to the existing GO Station as well..........

I just think going under is the less complex and costly route, in that section.

 

[MrGoose]

 

[81-717]

Jheez, I sure hope they're not seriously considering building the east & west extensions as separate lines using separate rolling stock (especially the west extension to Shw & Wilson yard). Either extend the existing damn line or don't bother at all. This trend of building every new line completely standalone needs to die.

For similar reasons, the line is likely go under the Stouffville GO line, rather than over (never say, never, but there are lots of issues w/that)

you have to stay constantly elevated, at a height that allows for double-stack freight/GO and catenary underneath

Since the GO line is already elevated above Sheppard, building line 4 above the GO line would require going not just elevated, but superelevated, perhaps as high as the Prince Edward viaduct. I can't really see that happening in the middle of Sheppard.

 

[Northern Light]

Jheez, I sure hope they're not seriously considering building the east & west extensions as separate lines using separate rolling stock (especially the west extension to Shw & Wilson yard). Either extend the existing damn line or don't bother at all. This trend of building every new line completely standalone needs to die.

There is no contemplation of stand-alone lines.

Since the GO line is already elevated above Sheppard, building line 4 above the GO line would require going not just elevated, but superelevated, perhaps as high as the Prince Edward viaduct. I can't really see that happening in the middle of Sheppard.

Sheppard passes underneath the GO Line, the GO Line is at-grade.

 

[ARG1]

View attachment 576664

I have a moral objection to using the ignore button.

Sheppard passes underneath the GO Line, the GO Line is at-grade.

I guess its a relative thing, where you're elevating over an existing bridge.

Looking at it though, I don't see what the issue would be with just elevating it on the north side of Sheppard, running above the road that connects the parking lot to Sheppard, say build the station hereish:

You'd be able to integrate the station with the planned access to the existing Agincourt platforms, and offer fairly convenient platform to platform transfers.

 

[Northern Light]

I have a moral objection to using the ignore button.

I guess its a relative thing, where you're elevating over an existing bridge.

Looking at it though, I don't see what the issue would be with just elevating it on the north side of Sheppard, running above the road that connects the parking lot to Sheppard, say build the station hereish:

View attachment 576680
You'd be able to integrate the station with the planned access to the existing Agincourt platforms, and offer fairly convenient platform to platform transfers.

The height over the GO line in isolation is not a great feat unto itself. But you have to hold that height from somewhere west of Kennedy (you have to clear that intersection at height), until somewhere east of the CP mainline if you stay in the Sheppard corridor.

Also, the station box is not likely to be over the GO tracks, if you want an easy connection to Kennedy, which, to my understanding is the plan.

If you examine that corridor and look at what's already developed and what's been approved/zoned for along the corridor, I would argue there are some real challenges. But perhaps Mx will feel different.

 

[ARG1]

The height over the GO line in isolation is not great feat unto itself. But you have to hold that height some somewhere west of Kennedy (you have to clear that intersection at height), then you have to hold that height until somewhere east of the CP mainline if you stay in the Sheppard corridor.

Also, the station box not likely to be over the GO tracks, if you want an easy connection to Kennedy, which, to my understanding is the plan.

If you examine that corridor and look at what's already developed and what's been approved/zoned for along the corridor, I would argue there are some real challenges. But perhaps Mx will feel different.

I'm just taking the claim where staff think Agincourt is more important to serve than Kennedy, and inhaling all the Hopium I possibly can from it.

 

[duty free]

It isn't for me to decide. It is for the businesses and residents of the area. If they feel cut and cover is the best, then that is the decision. If they feel that option will be too disruptive, then another option should be looked at.

Fair enough, but if you give residents and businesses the power to make infrastructure decisions then nothing will ever get built. See the decades from 1990 to 2010 for reference.

 

[KhalilHeron]

There is basically nothing in between Scarborough Town Centre and Pickering, except for the zoo, which is served by a bus connecting Rouge Hill GO. And anyone who wants to go to STC or to points further west would be far better served by taking the several bus lines that already run from Pickering to STC.

equating the homes and workplaces of hundreds of thousands to ‘basically nothing except for the zoo’ is pretty rude and ignorant
I dont think a subway needs to go to pickering anytime soon but faster transit connections to areas other than downtown are desperately needed in east scarborough and all over the GTA
I live in east scarborough and dont have a car,
I often dont even bother applying to jobs in north york, durham, or markham because they take me 30mins-1hour longer to get too than downtown despite being closer

 

[KhalilHeron]

From an employment perspective, Option 3 makes a lot of sense. Lots of warehouse-type employment is being added along Markham Road up to Steeles, so the Markham Road bus would be far more convenient. 2A would also be fine. Those working at STC would still be very well served without a direct connection from the west. Going out to Morningside also would make the Eglinton East LRT connections to UTSC and Malvern Centre very easy.

From a regional perspective (yes, I'm biased here), Option 3 or 2A would also be amazing for connecting the YRT/TTC routes along McCowan and Markham roads. Also, a lot of the express services YRT runs from East Markham (Cornell Terminal, etc.) that currently go to Finch could be rerouted to Sheppard and McCowan/Markham. This is especially true for McCowan where bus lanes have been contemplated from Sheppard to Highway 7. Ending Line 4 at STC would remove much of the benefits for NE Scarborough and SE Markham.

Admittedly, east of mccowan, more people live south of the 401 than north of it

 

[81-717]

equating the homes and workplaces of hundreds of thousands to ‘basically nothing except for the zoo’ is pretty rude and ignorant

Thank you. I hate when dt dwellers who can't see past the tip of their nose (aka Bloor street) attack suburban neighborhoods for being "uninhabitable hellscapes" / "inhuman wastelands" or whatever, when many of them are in fact much nicer to spend time in than old toronto (not to mention much nicer-looking houses/architecture). My (apparently wildly) unpopular opinion of the day.