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Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

Wow, I didn't realize Kipling Station on Line 2 was so far west, I also realize that these are not scale but them-there-that's taking liberties y'all no?? :cool:
I appreciate some of your videos, although I skip through your commentary and keep you on mute. But please don't try to derail a thread, to try to gain popularity/monetization for your own YouTube channel. If I want to see it, I'll go there...

I was trying to have a serious discussion about Line 4 extensions, and you latched on to W. K. Lis' map from Thursday like that.
 
I appreciate some of your videos, although I skip through your commentary and keep you on mute. But please don't try to derail a thread, to try to gain popularity/monetization for your own YouTube channel. If I want to see it, I'll go there...

I was trying to have a serious discussion about Line 4 extensions, and you latched on to W. K. Lis' map from Thursday like that.
This seems needlessly aggressive.
 
I appreciate some of your videos, although I skip through your commentary and keep you on mute. But please don't try to derail a thread, to try to gain popularity/monetization for your own YouTube channel. If I want to see it, I'll go there...

I was trying to have a serious discussion about Line 4 extensions, and you latched on to W. K. Lis' map from Thursday like that.
I apologize, I was just trying to be light hearted but I respect the seriousness of the conversation and admit in hindsight my post placement was pretty random and not reflective of the conversation.
 
I appreciate some of your videos, although I skip through your commentary and keep you on mute. But please don't try to derail a thread, to try to gain popularity/monetization for your own YouTube channel. If I want to see it, I'll go there...

I was trying to have a serious discussion about Line 4 extensions, and you latched on to W. K. Lis' map from Thursday like that.
Ouch. Unnecessary.
I apologize, I was just trying to be light hearted but I respect the seriousness of the conversation and admit in hindsight my post placement was pretty random and not reflective of the conversation.
You're just having fun, continue to do so, we would go crazy if it was all serious all the time 😎
 
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I apologize, I was just trying to be light hearted but I respect the seriousness of the conversation and admit in hindsight my post placement was pretty random and not reflective of the conversation.
I must say @grammin, that: ”I’m sorry”. I really am! I had a bad day and I took it out on you very unnecessarily. I really do appreciate your videos.

I won’t mention any names, but some bad apples have ruined things for me by bombing threads with totally unrelated posts. Still, I refuse to ”Ignore” anyone as some Mods have suggested, simply for the reason that we’re all human, and each of us has brilliant things to say once in a while…

Again, I’m very sorry for snapping on you. You weren’t the person that was annoying me on this forum.

Keep up the good work!!
 
@Reecemartin raises some good points in his latest video on this subject.

Given the small number of existing stations on Line 4, retrofitting for PSD makes a lot of sense, enabling automated operation, higher frequency operation and less need to future-proof for longer trains than the current 4-car trains.

It would be very bold (and welcome) to see cut-and-cover and/or elevated alignments used for this extension. I fear we are too sensitive to NIMBYs here to use this method though (given the expensive diversion around Thornhill as recent evidence). Perhaps recent experience with the length of disruption on Eglinton could be used to argue for cut-and-cover, but that seems like a level of nuance that we can't have in public discussions. Cut and cover sounds more disruptive than nice clean tunnels. We need Carl Rove to come up with better branding. How about precision excavation? Only half-kidding--this stuff matters in public engagement.

I also strongly agree that Line 4 should go to STC as this improves the network effects, which seems to be under-appreciated by many observers who prefer slavish alignment to the grid, or eventual extension to Malvern (for which subway seems like overkill).


 
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Here is my new video on the Sheppard Line & its extension possibilities! I actually feel really strongly that this is an important project and the best solution for the Sheppard Line, and I've addressed most of the expected criticisms. Enjoy!

Great video, I also agree that it is definitely time to make Line 4 a real crosstown line.. the conditions are right (lots of great density coming to Scarborough, massive congestion on the 401, stronger need for regional connections, etc.)

What's the general sense on the constructability of the bridge over the Don Valley? You kind of hand-waved it away because of the Ontario Line bridge, but my understanding was that the TRs are heavier than the OL rolling stock and therefore the bridge costs would likely be higher.
 
Great video, I also agree that it is definitely time to make Line 4 a real crosstown line.. the conditions are right (lots of great density coming to Scarborough, massive congestion on the 401, stronger need for regional connections, etc.)

What's the general sense on the constructability of the bridge over the Don Valley? You kind of hand-waved it away because of the Ontario Line bridge, but my understanding was that the TRs are heavier than the OL rolling stock and therefore the bridge costs would likely be higher.
Honestly I don't think there can be any debate on this topic. Line 4 simply cannot go under Earl Bales, it would be far more expensive than any bridge over the ravine and so deep underground that it would preclude any possibility of a station being built at Bathust Street.
 
Here is my new video on the Sheppard Line & its extension possibilities! I actually feel really strongly that this is an important project and the best solution for the Sheppard Line, and I've addressed most of the expected criticisms. Enjoy!

Great video. I cannot believe the number of Torontonians/Transit and Urban Planning enthusiasts that say something along the lines of "Sheppard is a subway in the middle of the suburbs, nobody takes it, and it shouldn't be extended because nobody takes it, and the Don Valley is too hard to cross anyways". Anyways the benefits of a 4km extension west are obviously huge, especially with connecting Wilson Yard to the other side of Line 1 with the extension on Yonge taking Line 1 another 8km north. Trips to and from Yorkdale and York University as well as St. George and U of T, which currently necessitates a transfer to Line 2 at Yonge and Bloor from those leaving from North York, could instead be done by taking the Sheppard subway and crossing over to the University section. This also could help lessen the load on the busier side Line 1 being Yonge and Yonge and Bloor itself. Just an unbelievable amount of benefits for 4KM! of Subway.
 
Here is my new video on the Sheppard Line & its extension possibilities! I actually feel really strongly that this is an important project and the best solution for the Sheppard Line, and I've addressed most of the expected criticisms. Enjoy!
Is this really necessary after the preceding post? Yeah, perhaps it wasn't up when you started posting, but why not delete after you see the duplication?

Honestly I don't think there can be any debate on this topic. Line 4 simply cannot go under Earl Bales, it would be far more expensive than any bridge over the ravine and so deep underground that it would preclude any possibility of a station being built at Bathust Street.
It certainly should be a bridge, and has always been designed as a bridge.

Though the same is true at McCowan and Lawrence (over West Highland Creek) but that hasn't stopped them unnecessarily tunnelling there, and trying to build one of the deepest subway stations in the city (in artesian conditions!).

Though with the existing tail tracks going all the way to the box for Senlac station, I doubt they can dive quick enough to get under the creek. (though that hasn't stopped them at Kennedy station, where they are ripping up the existing tail tracks, to increase the slope down to the beginning of the bored tunnel, and to build the new storage track on top of the new cut-and-cover section of the tunnel ... unless they have changed the design for the umpteenth time).

Looking at constructability, there's no point doing anything other than cut-an-cover between Senlac station and the West Don River - at most it's 500 metres before you get to a portal - perhaps less. TBM might make sense between Bathurst (North?) station and Sheppard West station - it's about 2 km. But it would be tempting to do the entire thing as cut-and-cover, and go above the Line 1 tunnel, with a stub connecting into Wilson Yard.
 
I enjoy the video but I would still prefer a connection at Mccowan/Sheppard. Maybe it could turn south to stc from there, but that would likely mean no eastward extension to markham rd, malvern, in the next few decades.
Here is my new video on the Sheppard Line & its extension possibilities! I actually feel really strongly that this is an important project and the best solution for the Sheppard Line, and I've addressed most of the expected criticisms. Enjoy!

 
What doesn't make sense to me is terminating it at STC. Terminating it at Sheppard n McCowan makes the entire line available to continue eastward to Markham or possibly even Morningside and actually impacting Scarborough transit needs
 
What doesn't make sense to me is terminating it at STC. Terminating it at Sheppard n McCowan makes the entire line available to continue eastward to Markham or possibly even Morningside and actually impacting Scarborough transit needs
The natural eastward extension is along Ellesmere. Could put a BRT on Sheppard to connect Malvern to Line 4.
 

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