Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[UD2]

If the suburbs want a heavy rail subway, then they'll need to rezone the neighbourhood from low-density single-use to high-density multi-use. Not just along the single block where the subway will be, but within a 15-minute walk of each station.

And this is exactly what the Sheppard corridor is right now.

Since we are taking bout intensification, perhaps we should also apply the same test to the Danforth corridor where there is already a subway. Or all along the Ontario line east of the DVP.

Unless there is a rule that says this should only apply to areas with high concentrations of visible minority and immigrants.

 

[sixrings]

And this is exactly what the Sheppard corridor is right now.

Since we are taking bout intensification, perhaps we should also apply the same test to the Danforth corridor where there is already a subway. Or all along the Ontario line east of the DVP.

Unless there is a rule that says this should only apply to areas with high concentrations of visible minority and immigrants.

The houses along the danforth and bloor are century houses with character. They are part of the Toronto fabric. Those houses must be preserved but the McMansions must go! If you’re going to be rich that’s ok but at least be tasteful or buy a condo. Bulldoze everything on sheppard and make the world a better place.

 

[Sunnyside]

Somehow I think achieving the density needed to give Line 4 ridership anywhere near/equivalent to the other lines is more of a headache than just extending it. Instead of building TOD on a line to nowhere just for the sake of it, developers can build on a line to somewhere.

 

[blacksquirrels]

I don’t mind the notion of an express service that bypasses these stations if you want Line 4 to be a fast crosstown route. That hinges upon an extension however- Demoting Line 4 from a 4-stop stub to a 1-stop stub won’t do anyone any favors. I always thought making it a branch of Line 1 would be a good idea given it’s short length, but we don’t really do branching for subways here.

branching Line 2 probably makes more sense than branching Line 1 especially on the Yonge street segment, even though the wye already exists at Yonge & Sheppard. Yonge needs as much capacity as possible since it's the backbone of the entire network. theoretically i could see Line 2 having one branch head west on Sheppard and one branch head north to Markham Centre (wherever that is) from STC.

 

[Sunnyside]

branching Line 2 probably makes more sense than branching Line 1 especially on the Yonge street segment, even though the wye already exists at Yonge & Sheppard. Yonge needs as much capacity as possible since it's the backbone of the entire network. theoretically i could see Line 2 having one branch head west on Sheppard and one branch head north to Markham Centre (wherever that is) from STC.

Not a bad idea. What about as a branch of the Spadina line? Capacity on Yonge is obviously the priority, and I thought some trains turn back somewhere along the TYSSE. Not sure if there is much utility in operating this way compared to routing Sheppard up to VMC at that point, though.

 

[blacksquirrels]

Not a bad idea. What about as a branch of the Spadina line? Capacity on Yonge is obviously the priority, and I thought some trains turn back somewhere along the TYSSE. Not sure if there is much utility in operating this way compared to routing Sheppard up to VMC at that point, though.

yeah it's been proposed before and many times throughout this thread.

 

[blacksquirrels]

how's about this half-baked idea? use Sheppard to branch/interline both Line 1 & 2.

 

[nfitz]

yeah it's been proposed before and many times throughout this thread.

Indeed! Back before the Spadina extension north of Downsview (now Sheppard West) was final, I (jokingly) proposed in one thread, simply extending Line 1 around a curve, and then east on Sheppard, becoming Line 4. And then extending both Line 2 and Line 4 to Scarborough Centre - and joining them, to create a single subway line for the entire city!

We could have called it the Yonge-University-Spadina-Allen-Sheppard-McCowan-Danforth-Bloor line!

 

[W. K. Lis]

Indeed! Back before the Spadina extension north of Downsview (now Sheppard West) was final, I (jokingly) proposed in one thread, simply extending Line 1 around a curve, and then east on Sheppard, becoming Line 4. And then extending both Line 2 and Line 4 to Scarborough Centre - and joining them, to create a single subway line for the entire city!

We could have called it the Yonge-University-Spadina-Allen-Sheppard-McCowan-Danforth-Bloor line!

Attention please. An empty pop can fell on the track shortening out the entire line. Staff have been sent out. Shuttle buses are on the way to the entire line.

 

[carlosdanger]

And this is exactly what the Sheppard corridor is right now.

Since we are taking bout intensification, perhaps we should also apply the same test to the Danforth corridor where there is already a subway. Or all along the Ontario line east of the DVP.

Unless there is a rule that says this should only apply to areas with high concentrations of visible minority and immigrants.

You're saying the quiet part out loud. The bar for a not-yet-built subway is higher than an area that has had one for decades.

To add some data to your comment, Scarborough has 22.61% European ethnicity (2021) versus the Toronto-Danforth riding at 67.2% (2016).

 

[valvenis]

The houses along the danforth and bloor are century houses with character. They are part of the Toronto fabric. Those houses must be preserved but the McMansions must go! If you’re going to be rich that’s ok but at least be tasteful or buy a condo. Bulldoze everything on sheppard and make the world a better place.

The houses on Danforth St in Portland are definitely houses with character and probably worth preserving.

Those on Danforth and Bloor in Toronto? No. Especially not on a subway line during a housing crisis.

 

[sixrings]

The houses on Danforth St in Portland are definitely houses with character and probably worth preserving.

Those on Danforth and Bloor in Toronto? No. Especially not on a subway line during a housing crisis.

Your desire to rip down houses in the name of density and gentrification is a nice way to say move the minorities out.

I too get a nose bleed north of bloor.

 

[carlosdanger]

Your desire to rip down houses in the name of density and gentrification is a nice way to say move the minorities out.

I too get a nose bleed north of bloor.

These areas are very wealthy. Adding density will not make it more expensive to live, nor gentrify it as the new people moving in will be less wealthy than existing residents. The average income/net worth will likely fall as more people move in, and I would assume this is the concern. Also, more minorities (and the population as a whole) will be able to afford to live in the area. Yes, neighbourhood character will change. Yes, that is a good thing that more people will be able to raise a family in more parts of the city.

Larger percentages of the populations of the suburbs are non-white partially because they are newer to Canada and overall less financially well-off, unable to live closer to work. I know that is true for my family.

 

[sixrings]

These areas are very wealthy. Adding density will not make it more expensive to live, nor gentrify it as the new people moving in will be less wealthy than existing residents. The average income/net worth will likely fall as more people move in, and I would assume this is the concern. Also, more minorities (and the population as a whole) will be able to afford to live in the area. Yes, neighbourhood character will change. Yes, that is a good thing that more people will be able to raise a family in more parts of the city.

Larger percentages of the populations of the suburbs are non-white partially because they are newer to Canada and overall less financially well-off, unable to live closer to work. I know that is true for my family.

Did the average income/net worth of people who lived downtown drop when density increased? Did it become more diverse. I vaguely remember living in a condominium across from union station and it was anything but diverse.

 

[carlosdanger]

Did the average income/net worth of people who lived downtown drop when density increased? Did it become more diverse. I vaguely remember living in a condominium across from union station and it was anything but diverse.

Yes, the city has gotten more expensive in every part of the city. The core has gotten more expensive and the suburbs (wealthy to working class) have gotten more expensive.

The relative expensive of the core still exists over the vast majority of the suburbs.

Adding more density, hopefully with more rental density, will help. Though density is density.

The alternative scenario to the present is if less density was built than exists today. Toronto would be even more expensive than it is now. It's a counterfactual, so proof cannot exist, but take away 10% of the available homes and imagine what rents/prices would be.

The lack of diversity is due to the relative expense of the core versus suburbs, not the nominal price.