Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[toronto647]

IO Market Update - May 2022

My thoughts
- The Sheppard Subway Extension is still under Projects in Planning section
- Following the elections Metrolinx/IO/Ford need to figure out the long term strategy of Scarborough Transit... Will they extend the EGLRT East? Further Extend the Scarborough Subway Extension North and/or extend the Sheppard Subway east. From the three it seems as the priority is the Sheppard Subway East Extension (mid 2030s) followed by EGLRT East (late 2030s) and then finally the Scarborough Subway Extension North (early-mid 2040s). Wonder how many years it will take to actually get these built. 2050 perhaps?

Projects Under Planning
- Line 4 Extension (Sheppard East) Subway

Link - https://www.infrastructureontario.c...ws/2_Market_Update/May_2022_Market_Update.pdf

 

[Allandale25]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1521840819405148161

 

[JasonParis]

Isn't the problem with Sheppard density being that a lot of people simply drive regardless of the subway being at their doorstep? Not saying it isn't a good thing in other ways, but it hasn't always translated into ridership. Still, the line doesn't particularly go very many places, yet, either.

 

[Rainforest]

Isn't the problem with Sheppard density being that a lot of people simply drive regardless of the subway being at their doorstep? Not saying it isn't a good thing in other ways, but it hasn't always translated into ridership. Still, the line doesn't particularly go very many places, yet, either.

Local residential density never drives ridership at the subway level. Line 1 and Line 2 are very busy because of the feeder routes, while walk-in riders make a small portion of all users.

 

[Deadpool X]

Isn't the problem with Sheppard density being that a lot of people simply drive regardless of the subway being at their doorstep? Not saying it isn't a good thing in other ways, but it hasn't always translated into ridership. Still, the line doesn't particularly go very many places, yet, either.

I used to live near Leslie station and used the subway pre-covid. By the time trains arrived into Leslie from Don Mills in the morning, all the seats were already full from just the Don Mills station. By the time trains reached Yonge, standing space used to be half to two-thirds full.

 

[Undead]

I think that's more to do with the line having 4-car trains and lower frequencies than Yonge. There isn't enough ridership to pack a 6-car train running at 2'30'' frequencies.

 

[asher__jo]

I think that's more to do with the line having 4-car trains and lower frequencies than Yonge. There isn't enough ridership to pack a 6-car train running at 2'30'' frequencies.

I used to live near Leslie station and used the subway pre-covid. By the time trains arrived into Leslie from Don Mills in the morning, all the seats were already full from just the Don Mills station. By the time trains reached Yonge, standing space used to be half to two-thirds full.

I wouldn't say that is unusually full, I rarely find much room riding the Canada line after Broadway-City Hall when I went to Langara.

 

[turini2]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1521840819405148161

It does help that the Canadian Tire distribution centre and big box stores by Bessarion station are slowly being developed... But it also doesn't help that detached family housing fronts onto Sheppard along several sections - including adjacent to Bessarion station itself!

If they are gonna build a subway further - substantial up zoning needs to occur.
(I wonder if Pasternak would be so keen on his "North York Relief Line" idea if it meant up zoning for his residents!)

 

[Northern Light]

I think that's more to do with the line having 4-car trains and lower frequencies than Yonge. There isn't enough ridership to pack a 6-car train running at 2'30'' frequencies.

Yes, but, there's a chicken and egg phenomenon, how many people choose to pass up riding because there is no capacity available, or they can't get a seat? There is at least some latent demand now; and that's
before significant additional development.

Lets note that the way things are set up right now there is no ability to run six-car trains (the stations are there structurally, but would require substantial work and removal of hoarding in order to handle six-car operation.

Likewise, there are no spare 4-car sets available to increase frequency.

 

[Northern Light]

It does help that the Canadian Tire distribution centre and big box stores by Bessarion station are slowly being developed... But it also doesn't help that detached family housing fronts onto Sheppard along several sections - including adjacent to Bessarion station itself!

If they are gonna build a subway further - substantial up zoning needs to occur.
(I wonder if Pasternak would be so keen on his "North York Relief Line" idea if it meant up zoning for his residents!)

The south side of Sheppard from Bayview to Leslie will not have any single family homes in 10 years, possibly 5.

***

The north side may still have some gaps

***

There will be more density in the Yonge-Bayview block as well; though to maximize that, beyond political will, we need Willowdale Station constructed.

 

[syn]

The new development is great but it's still nowhere near what's necessary to make the subway worthwhile.

It's hard to see that changing in that particular area. There's just so many family homes and I don't think people are keen for that to change.

I know people argue it's because the line is too short and doesn't go anywhere...but it's still not really planned to 'go anywhere' anytime soon. STC would be great but I question how many people would be traveling from Scarborough to Sheppard, especially when the SSE is done.

 

[innsertnamehere]

The sheppard line's problem is it's length - it doesn't have enough distance to collect the amount of people to be 'justified".

If it was built to full length from Sheppard West to STC, it would be a lot busier, if not entirely full.

Generally, I'm supportive of the idea of closing it for a few years to convert it to a cheaper technology that can be built elevated for the extensions.

 

[Northern Light]

The new development is great but it's still nowhere near what's necessary to make the subway worthwhile.

It's hard to see that changing in that particular area. There's just so many family homes and I don't think people are keen for that to change.

I know people argue it's because the line is too short and doesn't go anywhere...but it's still not really planned to 'go anywhere' anytime soon. STC would be great but I question how many people would be traveling from Scarborough to Sheppard, especially when the SSE is done.

The node of employment at VP/Consumers is already substantial and will only get much moreso with lots of residential infill; huge density is coming to Agincourt Mall's site as well; and as I'm sure others here could tell you,
there are a few other large'ish developments coming on this corridor that aren't yet public.

In terms of the existing line, there is huge density at Don Mills Sheppard and mostly all the way to Finch.

Even on Bayview w/have the large proposal coming up at Tyndale and there's more public and coming between Tyndale and Sheppard.

I think there's a tendency to under-sell this line simply because it was backed by Mel Lastman; was the wrong choice at the time vs the Relief Line; and because it was also truncated, and development initially a bit slow, under performed in its first few years.

But in reality its doing fine and will do much better with time.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Local residential density never drives ridership at the subway level. Line 1 and Line 2 are very busy because of the feeder routes, while walk-in riders make a small portion of all users.

Also local commercial businesses are a primary driver of ridership.

 

[11th]

The sheppard line's problem is it's length - it doesn't have enough distance to collect the amount of people to be 'justified".

If it was built to full length from Sheppard West to STC, it would be a lot busier, if not entirely full.

Generally, I'm supportive of the idea of closing it for a few years to convert it to a cheaper technology that can be built elevated for the extensions.

Finch East buses are eating into some of its intended Scarborough ridership. Why would anyone transfer to Sheppard when they can get a one bus ride to line 1 terminus (the terminus part will change when line 1 is extended).