Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[Allandale25]

There's some activity on this by the City right now:

1) Sheppard Avenue East Review - Next Steps

This item was considered by the North York Community Council on January 6, 2022 and adopted without amendment. It will be considered by City Council on February 2, 2022.

Summary​

City Council directed City Planning on June 26, 2018 (NY31.8), in consultation with the appropriate City Divisions, to review the existing policies contained within the Sheppard East Subway Corridor Secondary Plan between Bayview Avenue and Leslie Street to analyze the existing and planned built form context. City Planning initiated the review on existing and planned land use, City infrastructure, such as community services, sewer capacity, and parkland. That review has prompted staff to determine that a more fulsome Study of the corridor (Bayview Avenue to Leslie Street) is necessary, that will expand upon clarifying, refining and/or strengthening the density and height limitations. The expanded review will now look at the area as a whole in order to provide recommendations to inform planning policy that would establish a planning and infrastructure framework to accommodate prescribed population and job growth around the Subway stations, address transportation and servicing capacity issues and create a plan for a complete, mixed use and vibrant community.​

The item also contained this:

(January 4, 2022) Letter from Councillor Shelley Carroll, Ward 17, Don Valley North - Sheppard Avenue East Review - Next Steps
(http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2022/ny/bgrd/backgroundfile-174878.pdf)

Excerpt:

The expanded review will now look at the area as a whole in order to provide recommendations to inform planning policy that would establish a planning and infrastructure framework to accommodate prescribed population and job growth around the Subway stations, address transportation and servicing capacity issues and create a plan for a complete, mixed use and vibrant community.

2) City Planning Division - Study Work Program Update
This item was considered by Planning and Housing Committee on January 12, 2022 and was adopted with amendments.

In the staff report, references to Sheppard:

• Page 2 - Keeping Toronto Moving - mobility is a foundational component for a growing, liveable city. The Division will continue to emphasize the importance of mobility and connectivity integration at both the large scale, such as transit expansion projects, and the local scale through coordinated public realm planning that is responsive to multi-modal needs. In practice, this means continuing to articulate and advance city building objectives, including transit equity and design excellence, around Provincial Priority Project lines and station planning; and continuing to work on local area studies, such as the Sheppard Corridor Monitoring Study and the Yorkdale Transportation Study.
  
  
• Page 8 - Keeping Toronto moving - In 2022, City Planning will continue to play an important role in articulating and advancing city-building objectives related to the Province's priority transit projects and TOC program. The Division will continue to lead planning work and studies related to other City-initiated transit priorities, the Sheppard Corridor Monitoring Study, the Surface Transit Network Plan, the Yorkdale Transportation Study and the Yonge Street North Planning Study's Transportation Master Plan. City Planning will also collaborate with Transportation Services on a range of projects, including the Finch Goods Movement Study and a broader parking strategy.
  
  
• Page 22 -
  • City Building: Service Level 18
    • Review of Sheppard Avenue East Subway Corridor Secondary Plan
    • Sheppard Avenue Commercial Areas (East) Secondary Plan Review, Phase 2 - OPA Part 1 and
  • Transportation Planning
    • Sheppard Corridor Monitoring Study
• Page 30 - Work Program Item and Status
  • Sheppard Avenue Commercial Areas (East & West) Secondary Plan Review, Urban Design Guidelines & Streetscape Plan - Active

 

[Towered]

Going from Sheppard subway tech to Ontario subway like tech would be a minimal drop in overall capacity (in fact, it would be a significant increase over the line today), but would likely allow the line to be delivered at a fraction of the cost as much more of it could be elevated. That is if the City has the stomach for an elevated line along Sheppard, as well.

Elevated would be ideal. Sheppard isn't a nice street by any means, and doesn't have any pesky heritage in the way!

 

[innsertnamehere]

That's for land use issues around the existing subway corridor.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Going from Sheppard subway tech to Ontario subway like tech would be a minimal drop in overall capacity (in fact, it would be a significant increase over the line today), but would likely allow the line to be delivered at a fraction of the cost as much more of it could be elevated. That is if the City has the stomach for an elevated line along Sheppard, as well.

We don't know which rolling stock will be used at this time to be fair. I bet will by the Canada line veichles, aka the gransons of the SRT. I think that is somewhat of a drop off. I would strongly prefer to stick with the rockets.

 

[Allandale25]

That's for land use issues around the existing subway corridor.

Oh, I thought some of the work was related to the extension but I'm not very familiar with the area so I defer to others on whether any of the city documents I provide above are for the extension.

 

[nfitz]

I'm glad to hear this. To spend gobs of money to reduce existing transit capacity in a rapidly growing city is illogical to me.

Current Line 4 trains are only 92 metres long (4 cars). Not much difference between that and the 90-metre long trains they can run on Eglinton. Or if they use the Alstom cars for the Finch West Line, 2 of those are 96 metres long.

They are a bit narrower. But they are still wider than the subway cars they use in Montreal, and only 3 cm narrower than the latest Tube stock (2009) in the UK, and 7 cm narrower than the R188 stock that they use on the New York Line 7.

The biggest factor though is that Line 4 still only runs every 6 minutes. If they move it to every 5.5 minutes with the narrower cars, then it would be a service improvement. And unlikely to come anywhere close to maximum capacity!

 

[KhalilHeron]

Elevated would be ideal. Sheppard isn't a nice street by any means, and doesn't have any pesky heritage in the way!

There are some older buildings around midland that I would like to see preserved but the ROW should be wide enough that the subway can dodge them or temporarily pop underground to avoid any conflicts

 

[sche]

I bet will by the Canada line veichles, aka the gransons of the SRT. I think that is somewhat of a drop off. I would strongly prefer to stick with the rockets.

This is not true. Canada Line trains are just completely regular steel wheel third rail powered metro trains, just two cars long. No relation to SRT whatsoever, that’s the Expo/Millennium lines. There’s a reason they chose to stop using bespoke/nonstandard trains for the Canada Line.

Essentially Canada Line trains are the same as Rockets, the only difference is that the Rockets have bespoke rail gauge, nonstandard voltage, etc…

 

[nfitz]

Essentially Canada Line trains are the same as Rockets, the only difference is that the Rockets have bespoke rail gauge, nonstandard voltage, etc…

Also the Rocket trains aren't just 33% longer than a single TTC streetcar.

 

[robmausser]

This is not true. Canada Line trains are just completely regular steel wheel third rail powered metro trains, just two cars long. No relation to SRT whatsoever, that’s the Expo/Millennium lines. There’s a reason they chose to stop using bespoke/nonstandard trains for the Canada Line.

Essentially Canada Line trains are the same as Rockets, the only difference is that the Rockets have bespoke rail gauge, nonstandard voltage, etc…

Yes this is correct, the Canada Line train technology was made by Hyundai, and has nothing to do with the SRT whatsover. Its their off the shelf automated metro vehicles, which are similar in size to the rockets, but do use more modern metro technology and are a bit lighter I believe.

The decision to use these had nothing to do with not using the SRT (ICTS) tech however; the project was a P3 like the Ontario Line and the decision was up to the chosen consortium to choose the technology for the job, just like will be for the Ontario Line. There was no mandate to use or not use the SRT technology, simply it was not chosen because the consortium simply chose the best cost/benefit tool for the job, and the Hyundai vehicles and tech was the best bang for the buck at the time.

Those Hyundai vehicles would be a great choice for the Ontario Line though, but obviously a 6 or 8 car set to meet the 100m platforms and ridership.

 

[Cobra]

Elevated would be ideal. Sheppard isn't a nice street by any means, and doesn't have any pesky heritage in the way!

Then some wonders where that "resentment/weird voting patterns" came from. Maybe Sheppard East would be "nicer" if the city bothered to do something with it?

City Hall resistance towards Yonge St. North was infuriating to watch - borderline insulting to North Yorkers.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

This is not true. Canada Line trains are just completely regular steel wheel third rail powered metro trains, just two cars long. No relation to SRT whatsoever, that’s the Expo/Millennium lines. There’s a reason they chose to stop using bespoke/nonstandard trains for the Canada Line.

Essentially Canada Line trains are the same as Rockets, the only difference is that the Rockets have bespoke rail gauge, nonstandard voltage, etc…

Also the Rocket trains aren't just 33% longer than a single TTC streetcar.

Meant the millennium line. Sorry.

Then some wonders where that "resentment/weird voting patterns" came from. Maybe Sheppard East would be "nicer" if the city bothered to do something with it?

City Hall resistance towards Yonge St. North was infuriating to watch - borderline insulting to North Yorkers.

It's not nice because of the residents though. They don't want any up zoning, which would have to be done if this is a go.

Re Yonge, that subway is for York Region. I'm sure the city would be fine with stopping at Steeles.

 

[Jaye101]

Then some wonders where that "resentment/weird voting patterns" came from. Maybe Sheppard East would be "nicer" if the city bothered to do something with it?

City Hall resistance towards Yonge St. North was infuriating to watch - borderline insulting to North Yorkers.

The same North York with 16 Subway Stations? The same North York that gained the ONLY 2 subway extensions in Metro Toronto in the last 30 years and is now getting another subway extension, 2 LRTs lines, 2 stops on the OL, and new GO stations on the Bolton Line?

 

[H4F33Z]

ICYMI: Sheppard Avenue from east of Yonge to Leslie is being reconstructed this year and next year with new cycle tracks, wider sidewalks, protected intersections, green infrastructure and minor lane reductions so this should definitely help it become more of a complete street.

Project website

 

[Aplus23]

ICYMI: Sheppard Avenue from east of Yonge to Leslie is being reconstructed this year and next year with new cycle tracks, wider sidewalks, protected intersections, green infrastructure and minor lane reductions so this should definitely help it become more of a complete street.

Project website

View attachment 376759

If this can be done then an at-grade LRT should be able to get done