Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[BMO]

It's also funny how Low-floor vehicles are seen as the answer to our accessibility woes, but the reality is that even if a vehicle is accessible they actually need to have available capacity to accommodate all these disabled people who can now use conventional transit lines. It's hard enough as an able-bodied person getting on an arterial surface route at rush hour.

 

[Streety McCarface]

Here in Waterloo, an actual flexity was brought in and I have a video of that if you two are interested.

Nothing is really different from the outlooks in terms of internal layout.

 

[smallspy]

If I'm not mistaken Ontario will be the only place in North America that will use only Low-Floors for its LRT lines and I am beginning to wonder if this will come back to haunt us in the future.

Only Ontario? Try telling that to Boston, Newark, Detroit, Cincinnati, Kansas City, San Diego, Salt Lake City, Portland, Houston, Edmonton, Minneapolis, Seattle, Phoenix.....

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[hw621]

Here in Waterloo, an actual flexity was brought in and I have a video of that if you two are interested.

Nothing is really different from the outlooks in terms of internal layout.

I told you that it is a streetcar.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I told you that it is a streetcar.

And a truck is the same as an automobile, but are different. A subway train is the same as a commuter (GO) train, but are different. A streetcar is the same as a light rail vehicle, but different.

 

[hw621]

And a truck is the same as an automobile, but are different. A subway train is the same as a commuter (GO) train, but are different. A streetcar is the same as a light rail vehicle, but different.

Sure. But streetcar to LRVs is more like truck to automobile, than subway train to commuter train, in terms of how and where they operate.

 

[Streety McCarface]

Only Ontario? Try telling that to Boston, Newark, Detroit, Cincinnati, Kansas City, San Diego, Salt Lake City, Portland, Houston, Edmonton, Minneapolis, Seattle, Phoenix.....

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

I think he was referring to within Canada, and so far, we, along with Ottawa, Waterloo, Kitchener, Mississauga, and Hamilton have been looking at only LFLRVs ever since the inception of LRT in Ontario.

By the way, Edmonton hasn't built their LFLRV line yet, and the majority of those cities you mentioned built (highly successful) streetcar lines, not Light Rail lines, and many of the actual light rail lines you mentioned are really high floor lines that require stepping up stairs to enter the train.

 

[Streety McCarface]

It just makes me wonder why they didn't just buy Flexity outlooks for those lines, and eventually connect each line to the streetcar system.

 

[11th]

Look at ECLRT at Eglinton at Martin Grove, DVP, Vic Park. They are (were) planned as at-grade under Miller. There is no doubt that if Miller planned a Sheppard LRT, it would have been at grade at Bayview and Leslie.

Considering the traffic situation at those intersections during rush hour, I am glad the current subway line was planned long before Miller's time.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

If you're going to build this, then build the entire thing.

 

[robmausser]

It just makes me wonder why they didn't just buy Flexity outlooks for those lines, and eventually connect each line to the streetcar system.

1. No bidrectional operation. Requires loops at each end of system

2. Not as wide as the Freedom LRTs

3. Doors only on one side, no ability to have stations in areas where not possible due to engineering constraints, no spanish solution possible in future.

4. Cannot be coupled together for longer trains (the outloooks can be shunted together, aka coupled together to push a dead streetcar, but this coupling is not rated or designed for normal use with people on board)

5. Voltage, turning radius and track gauge of existing streetcar system are custom, increasing cost of LRT order.

 

[OneCity]

If you're going to build this, then build the entire thing.

With stops or Toronto style?

 

[W. K. Lis]

1. No bidrectional operation. Requires loops at each end of system

2. Not as wide as the Freedom LRTs

3. Doors only on one side, no ability to have stations in areas where not possible due to engineering constraints, no spanish solution possible in future.

4. Cannot be coupled together for longer trains (the outloooks can be shunted together, aka coupled together to push a dead streetcar, but this coupling is not rated or designed for normal use with people on board)

5. Voltage, turning radius and track gauge of existing streetcar system are custom, increasing cost of LRT order.

1. & 2. Bidirectional is optional. Just as having doors on both sides is optional.

4. Could be coupled by adding coupliers. Even the used PCC streetcars of the 1950's had coupliers added to some of them for use on the Bloor streetcar line, after they arrived in Toronto.

See link.

 

[jaybe]

1. & 2. Bidirectional is optional. Just as having doors on both sides is optional.

See link.

I imagine that some stations on the Eglinton line have entrances in the center of the station while other stations will have the entrances on the outside. Having doors on both sides is not an option.

Related, is it an option to operate a subway with turn loops rather than doors on both sides? In the event of a station closure trains would need to reverse direction. How would riders exit if doors were on one side of the train only?

 

[smallspy]

I think he was referring to within Canada, and so far, we, along with Ottawa, Waterloo, Kitchener, Mississauga, and Hamilton have been looking at only LFLRVs ever since the inception of LRT in Ontario.

By the way, Edmonton hasn't built their LFLRV line yet, and the majority of those cities you mentioned built (highly successful) streetcar lines, not Light Rail lines, and many of the actual light rail lines you mentioned are really high floor lines that require stepping up stairs to enter the train.

Edmonton is in the midst of building a line, to the point where the first car is complete. No where else in Canada seems to be seriously looking at building a light rail line, so there's no other point of comparison.

As for the rest of those cities, I think you are trying desperately to make a distinction where one doesn't exist. Most of them have elements that are just as much LRT as any of the lines planned to be built here.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.