ehlow
Senior Member
No I had no idea, thanks. Google maps still told me to use Bessarion though. Either way though, there isn't a huge difference.
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Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)
- Thread starter denfromoakvillemilton
- Start date
No I had no idea, thanks. Google maps still told me to use Bessarion though. Either way though, there isn't a huge difference.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
I've been on Sheppard a few times last year and I don't recall it being 5 minutes. But these were all off peak trips (early evenings and Saturday afternoons). Perhaps it's 5 minutes on peak and longer off peak?
denfromoakvillemilton
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Sheppard is 5.5 - 6 minutes.
denfromoakvillemilton
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http://stevemunro.ca/?p=9470
In another thread’s comments, I mentioned that I would post travel pattern info for Scarborough to show how this behaves.
The diagrams linked here were originally produced by Eric Miller at the UofT, and they have been included in a few presentations including one recently at the UTSC Eco-Summit by André Sorensen. The source data come from a 2006 survey conducted by the University on behalf of governments in the GTHA. More recent data are about to be published, but they were not available when these charts were created.
http://stevemunro.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/EricMillerTTS2006ScarboroughODInfoV2.pdf
In another thread’s comments, I mentioned that I would post travel pattern info for Scarborough to show how this behaves.
The diagrams linked here were originally produced by Eric Miller at the UofT, and they have been included in a few presentations including one recently at the UTSC Eco-Summit by André Sorensen. The source data come from a 2006 survey conducted by the University on behalf of governments in the GTHA. More recent data are about to be published, but they were not available when these charts were created.
http://stevemunro.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/EricMillerTTS2006ScarboroughODInfoV2.pdf
innsertnamehere
Superstar
just because 36% or whatever are local trips to the grocery store, doesn't mean you should built transit to serve only those trips. Regional transit would never get built like that as most trips are local in nature.
besides, most congestion exists on regional trips, local trips are less susceptible to congestion. you need to be building transit to get people in and out of those areas quickly, and active transportation as well as improved bus service to get them around on those local trips. Saving 2 minutes on a 10 minute trip to the grocery store isn't as big a deal as saving 10 minutes on a 45 minute commute to downtown or somewhere else IMO.
local trips in their nature don't require high capacity solutions anyway as the trip distances are short and mixed as the vehicles travel the route with high passenger turnover rates. The SRT was an inherently regional service anyway, the ridership statistics on the local stations on it prove it. well over 90% of the trips on the line are to and from Kennedy to make regional trips using the B-D line.
besides, most congestion exists on regional trips, local trips are less susceptible to congestion. you need to be building transit to get people in and out of those areas quickly, and active transportation as well as improved bus service to get them around on those local trips. Saving 2 minutes on a 10 minute trip to the grocery store isn't as big a deal as saving 10 minutes on a 45 minute commute to downtown or somewhere else IMO.
local trips in their nature don't require high capacity solutions anyway as the trip distances are short and mixed as the vehicles travel the route with high passenger turnover rates. The SRT was an inherently regional service anyway, the ridership statistics on the local stations on it prove it. well over 90% of the trips on the line are to and from Kennedy to make regional trips using the B-D line.
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denfromoakvillemilton
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remember these numbers are old, the 2011 numbers have not come out yet.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
I don't think there'd be a significant difference between 2006 and 2011.
BMO
Senior Member
I think, just from a glance, there are some pretty enticing benefits to at least extending the western portion of this line to meetup with the Spadina line if, for nothing more than, much needed redundancy between the two lines allowing for trips to shift between yonge and Spadina during service disruptions. Not to mention that it would connect one of the largest trip generators in the region (YorkDale mall) with the North-East corner of the city. Right now, if as it stands, currently the trip takes 3 transfers from the North-East, two of which are by bus. The western extension could cut this to two for a lot of people. There's also the benefit of connecting York U through it as well and opening up NYCC to the North-West part of the city. I doubt we'd see a sufficient trip generation alogn the extension, but in a regional scope it definitely looks like it would have its merits.
ehlow
Senior Member
Good points made here, but it still seems lower priority to me than say the relief line or Yonge north extension.
While you made some good points with regards to connectivity and redundancy, I often worry that people want this because it looks good on the map to "close the loop" or something like that.
I'm personally skeptical about arguments that we should build transit lines to "close loops" or connect things because they look good on the rapid transit map. (not directed at you BMO, but I find others make arguments like that)
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
It could be an uptown line that connects from Pickering Centre to Brampton.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
You've hit the nail on the head. It's something that makes the map look pretty. That's it.
If you want to 'close the loop', paint some bus lanes on Sheppard West from Sheppard Station to Downsview Station and call it a day. You'll get from Sheppard Station to Downsview in 10 minutes.
You probably don't even need the bus lanes. The 196 Sheppard can take you between the two stations in a few minutes.
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
You could send the busses through the tunnels as well.
Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
Paint some bus lanes on Sheppard East from Don Mills Station to Meadowvale and call it a day. Your obsession with the SELRT (which is overkill) is very disturbing
Support a SEBRT like UT member Gweed!!!!!
ehlow
Senior Member
Paint some bus lanes on Sheppard East from Don Mills Station to Meadowvale and call it a day. Your obsession with the SELRT (which is overkill) is very disturbing
Support a SEBRT like UT member Gweed!!!!!
Right.. supporting a funded and approved LRT is "obsession" and "disturbing".
In my opinion TheTigerMaster is a great contributor to the discussions here, I enjoy his posts.
Support a FWLRT like UT member TheTigerMaster!!!!!
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Paint some bus lanes on Sheppard East from Don Mills Station to Meadowvale and call it a day. Your obsession with the SELRT (which is overkill) is very disturbing
Support a SEBRT like UT member Gweed!!!!!
Nope. Usage on Sheppard East was projected to be greater than 4,000 pphpd. That's above the practical limit for BRT. If you were to install BRT on Sheppard East, on day one you'd need to replace it with LRT. Keep in mind that the modelling needs to be redone now that the extension of Line 2 will be terminating at Sheppard Avenue East. This likely means that usage of SELRT will be a little less than 4,000 pphpd, but still more than enough to justify LRT.
Furthermore, on both Sheppard East and Finch West, operational costs of LRT are significantly lower than for BRT. According to the Sheppard East & Finch West EAs, once you get over about 2,000 pphpd, BRT becomes more expensive than LRT to operate. This is because BRT needs more vehicles, more drivers etc...