Shabby Public Realm

[allabootmatt]

At this point I'd argue it's time to replace the fountain with something easier to maintain--even if only an extension of the (generally attractive) planters that begin in the median just to the north.

While Toronto is making some slow progress on public spaces, I think experience shows that any elements that will be administered by the City need to be very, very robust and low-maintenance to avoid situations like this.

You can see examples of this in public improvements in New York other than elaborate projects like the High Line: simple, hard-to-damage planters, rubbish bins, street furniture etc that don't need a lot of upkeep and can be installed easily--examples including the various improvement projects along Broadway. We need to walk before we can run.

 

[Silence&Motion]

At this point I'd argue it's time to replace the fountain with something easier to maintain--even if only an extension of the (generally attractive) planters that begin in the median just to the north.

I've read that the fountain actually has heritage status, which is one of the reasons for the delay. Apparently they needed to use the exact same stone to rebuild it, which needed to be imported from Europe: http://torontoist.com/2010/08/for_a_water_feature_situated/

 

[christiesplits]

Absolutely embarrassing, especially with less than a year left before the Pan Ams.

 

[salsa]

I fear for the new water feature coming to Grange Park when the city can't even get a simple fountain to work.

 

[Silence&Motion]

I fear for the new water feature coming to Grange Park when the city can't even get a simple fountain to work.

As do I. These concerns came up during one of the public meetings I attended. I'm still not sure how seriously those in charge of the project are taking them. With the jurisdictional overlap between the AGO and the City over this park, I can see a similar thing occurring where the fountain breaks down and neither side wants to claim responsibility for fixing it.

For a more immediate precedent, look to Sherbourne Common (also designed by Phillips Farevaag & Smallenberg who are designing the Grange). Those fountains were shut down for at least a year. From what I understand they got backed up with algae.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

re: water feature

I don't think it is particularly productive to avoid using water features because of the inability of the city to properly manage it. That's sacrificing the potential for quality public realm improvements and I am not sure if that's a goal we should strive towards. What there should be is some kind of czar for this kind of setups. You can't be cheap and expect high quality public spaces.

re: Sherbourne Commons

It was a design flaw that lead to issues with contamination.

AoD

 

[Silence&Motion]

re: water feature

I don't think it is particularly productive to avoid using water features because of the inability of the city to properly manage it. That's sacrificing the potential for quality public realm improvements and I am not sure if that's a goal we should strive towards. What there should be is some kind of czar for this kind of setups. You can't be cheap and expect high quality public spaces.

re: Sherbourne Commons

It was a design flaw that lead to issues with contamination.

AoD

I agree with you in the abstract. However, if I was a Grange resident who makes daily use of the park, I'd be thinking in much more pragmatically. If I could have more trees/benches/grass or a fountain that may or may not be properly maintained, I might opt for the former.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

S&M:

I think avoiding them plays into the hand of those who wanted to see a minimum of spending/frills to improve the public realm (cut both ways - workers not wanting to deal with these features and politicians who doesn't want to spend the money on them), which only feeds a cycle of disinterest and disinvestment. Far better to build well and hold those responsible to account.

AoD

 

[Torontovibe]

As do I. These concerns came up during one of the public meetings I attended. I'm still not sure how seriously those in charge of the project are taking them. With the jurisdictional overlap between the AGO and the City over this park, I can see a similar thing occurring where the fountain breaks down and neither side wants to claim responsibility for fixing it.

For a more immediate precedent, look to Sherbourne Common (also designed by Phillips Farevaag & Smallenberg who are designing the Grange). Those fountains were shut down for at least a year. From what I understand they got backed up with algae.

The Salmon fountain between Skydome and the aquarium, is still broken. It has been broken for a few years. I saw 2 guys doing some work on it a week ago but now the work seems to have stopped and it's still not working. Why is a fish fountain beside an aquarium, allowed to just sit there not functioning? It's just ridiculous, the tourists must be seeing this and thinking WTF! Should they not have fixed that fountain before Ripley's opened to the public?

You would think that Ripley's would throw in a few bucks to make sure the fountain got fixed. It goes perfectly with the aquatic theme.

 

[Tewder]

The Salmon fountain between Skydome and the aquarium, is still broken. It has been broken for a few years. I saw 2 guys doing some work on it a week ago but now the work seems to have stopped and it's still not working. Why is a fish fountain beside an aquarium, allowed to just sit there not functioning? It's just ridiculous, the tourists must be seeing this and thinking WTF! Should they not have fixed that fountain before Ripley's opened to the public?

I'd be curious to know what a tourist would think who's been there before.... 'gawd that thing was broken like five years ago i'm sure!' Embarrassing!

 

[junctionist]

In the city's defence, many fountains are maintained just fine--Avenue of the Islands on Centre Island, the gardens at High Park, the CNE, NPS' reflecting pool and Cloud Gardens, for instance.

 

[taal]

The Salmon fountain between Skydome and the aquarium, is still broken. It has been broken for a few years. I saw 2 guys doing some work on it a week ago but now the work seems to have stopped and it's still not working. Why is a fish fountain beside an aquarium, allowed to just sit there not functioning? It's just ridiculous, the tourists must be seeing this and thinking WTF! Should they not have fixed that fountain before Ripley's opened to the public?

You would think that Ripley's would throw in a few bucks to make sure the fountain got fixed. It goes perfectly with the aquatic theme.

Completely agree about this; Maybe we should all write in to Ripleys to complain, and they in turn will complain ...

 

[DSC]

Completely agree about this; Maybe we should all write in to Ripleys to complain, and they in turn will complain ...

I asked Adam Vaughan's office and got the reply that though the PIPES were repaired last year (stopping leaks) now the TILES need attention and the City is "trying to get $$" to fix it properly for NEXT year. Fountains are costly to repair but we really do not have many and I gather that Parks has all of two plumbers for the whole city but .....

 

[Tewder]

I just love the 'git 'er done' spirit, it warms the cockles!

 

[acornman]

Just got through reading much of this thread and agree with most that the city could do a much better job making the streets look nicer by reducing the clutter.

I think the way the streets look at night could also be vastly improved. One thing that has always bothered me about the city is how dark it feels at night in comparison to other major cities I have visited. Even friends who are visiting from abroad always ask why major thoroughfares, landmarks, and popular areas don't have adequate lighting. Many areas also have large trees that block out much of the street lights making the sidewalks almost completely dark. I hope the new white street lights going up will brighten things up but I have already heard nimbys complaining about how they miss the sickly orange glow of the old lights.

Lighting up the facades of key buildings would help the atmosphere at night as well.

Another thing that bugs me is that the city tends to go a bit overboard with planting trees along every street. I know trees are good for us, but there are some areas that would do better off with just some open sidewalk. Instead we have streets where trees don't thrive so we end up with rows of dead trees that need to be re-planted every year or two.