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Seven ways to make Toronto a world-class city again

I think this speaks more to Paris offering a pleasant but narrow experience rather than any slag against Toronto.

I'm generalizing here but Paris is Paris and Parisians seem to have a hard time being anything but. Torontonians can go and feel at home in most places. I definitely could do without the gravitas and self-importance of any particular Grand Society.

When we speak of world-classness, this forum tends to fixate on frilly symptoms of wealth and stability. Once the institutions of a city are great, the frills will come in due time.
 
freshcutgrass said:
Why relocate your family from Paris to Toronto....and expect Paris??? Why move anywhere from Paris if you weren't interested in something different than Paris?? It's not like Toronto is some 3rd world hell-hole that you need to flee after discovering what a huge mistake you made coming...Toronto doesn't end up at or near the top of every QOL survey ever conducted for nothing.

And I'm not sure "right" downtown is going to be everyone's idea of the ideal family home. What Toronto is known for (and will continue to get more important as time goes by) is its abundance of leafy residential nabes complete with great schools and other local family accoutrements Had they chosen to stay there, perhaps their experience would have been very different? Hard to say unless we have the details.
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I wonder if it's something like: Parisians leave Paris for somewhere else, discover it's not like Paris, move back so that the things they complain about are at least Paris type things. That scenario plays itself out all over France.

There are always compromises when you move cities. The weather, the traffic ...
 
Tewder said:
Yes, to the French Paris is the centre of the known universe. I love the moxy.
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To Parisians, sure. To the rest of France ... mmm, nope. I work with people from various parts of France. They never really talk about Paris.
 
M.R.Victor said:
I think this speaks more to Paris offering a pleasant but narrow experience rather than any slag against Toronto.

I'm generalizing here but Paris is Paris and Parisians seem to have a hard time being anything but. Torontonians can go and feel at home in most places. I definitely could do without the gravitas and self-importance of any particular Grand Society.

When we speak of world-classness, this forum tends to fixate on frilly symptoms of wealth and stability. Once the institutions of a city are great, the frills will come in due time.
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For what it's worth, my wife, born in France and raised in Paris (as well as other parts of France -- she was an army brat), emigrated to Toronto in 1993 and raised two bilingual daughters here. She loves Toronto way more than Paris (although we both love both Paris and the rest of France.)

Paris is like New York or London -- raising a family is more difficult than Toronto, but they have their compensations, definitely. We would not have exchanged Riverdale for Versailles for love or money.
 
Riverdale Rink Rat said:
We would not have exchanged Riverdale for Versailles for love or money.
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Versailles and Riverdale are very different though right? I mean, they're not analogous. Don't get me wrong, I do get your point though.

Actually, Versailles is a pretty happening place right now, lots of artists and artisans... and a Sunday bike ride through the castle park? Heaven! If not Versailles though what about Neuilly? St. Germain-en-Laye? Chatou? Sevres?... there are just so many great places in the western burbs... and of course with their amazing train network you could live as far away as the Loire Valley and still work in the capital. I know people who commute daily from Blois. It's probably takes less time than trying to negotiate Toronto's car-clogged highways and streets. The chevreuse valley is quite near to Paris and is beautiful with lots of small towns and villages.
 
Tewder said:
Versailles and Riverdale are very different though right? I mean, they're not analogous. Don't get me wrong, I do get your point though.

Actually, Versailles is a pretty happening place right now, lots of artists and artisans... and a Sunday bike ride through the castle park? Heaven! If not Versailles though what about Neuilly? St. Germain-en-Laye? Chatou? Sevres?... there are just so many great places in the western burbs... and of course with their amazing train network you could live as far away as the Loire Valley and still work in the capital. I know people who commute daily from Blois. It's probably takes less time than trying to negotiate Toronto's car-clogged highways and streets. The chevreuse valley is quite near to Paris and is beautiful with lots of small towns and villages.
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My father-in-law commuted from Vernouillet to Les Invalides. Paris commuting is a bit of a slog, much like London or NYC (a good friend of mine commutes from Rye to Wall Street, which is another solid slog.)

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernouillet_(Yvelines)

(Amusingly, the church where we were married and the Maison where we had our reception are both shown in Wikipedia.)

Thanks, but no thanks. And if you think Toronto's streets are car-clogged, try Le Périph in rush hour. My commute via the 504 was much nicer, but I'm not much of a suburbs guy. And if you can afford Neuilly-sur-Seine, more power to you.
 
Riverdale Rink Rat said:
My father-in-law commuted from Vernouillet to Les Invalides. Paris commuting is a bit of a slog, much like London or NYC (a good friend of mine commutes from Rye to Wall Street, which is another solid slog.)

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernouillet_(Yvelines)

(Amusingly, the church where we were married and the Maison where we had our reception are both shown in Wikipedia.)

Thanks, but no thanks. And if you think Toronto's streets are car-clogged, try Le Périph in rush hour. My commute via the 504 was much nicer, but I'm not much of a suburbs guy. And if you can afford Neuilly-sur-Seine, more power to you.
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Hey the main thing is to be happy and content where you are, and it sounds like you are!

I'm not sure why your father in law would slog through traffic when Vernouillet is on a train line. The Wiki page you cited says it's only 23 minutes to St. Lazare station in rush hour with trains every 5 minutes! I'm sure a lot of people in the GTHA would be envious.
 
King of Kensington said:
If Toronto is no longer a world class city, when was it a world class city?
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Depending on who you talk to, we

a) were once (almost) a world-class city until ___ ruined everything
b) could be a world-class city if only ____
c) will never be a world-class city
c)i) 'which is why I'm leaving'
c)ii) 'and I'm okay with that'

I find this fixation on whether we are or were a world-class city (by what definition?) is a little sad and tiresome. What are we looking to get out of this? For cities that we consider world-class to think of us as their equals? Mention us from time to time in the same breath as their own names? Not feel like they're laughing at us behind our backs for daring to compare ourselves to them?

There are all kinds of great cities of all sizes all around the world and I doubt they lose much sleep over the issue of being world-class or not. It's a little like people who cling to all kinds of vestiges of loyalty to the UK (at the risk of starting an entirely different discussion) in the hope that we'll really matter to them once again, if we ever did. No one told them the UK stopped caring about Canada a long time ago.
 
Tewder said:
Hey the main thing is to be happy and content where you are, and it sounds like you are!

I'm not sure why your father in law would slog through traffic when Vernouillet is on a train line. The Wiki page you cited says it's only 23 minutes to St. Lazare station in rush hour with trains every 5 minutes! I'm sure a lot of people in the GTHA would be envious.
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Sorry -- wasn't clear. He took the train, with few exceptions. Taking the train to St. Lazare is 1/2 hour. Metro to Invalides is 1/2 hour. So, total commute was an hour or so. My 'streetcar suburb' commute was 25mns in the morning, door to sitting at my desk. (Longer at night home as King's busy at 5pm)

For the right job, I would have moved to Paris, sure, particularly as a young man. But Riverdale was perfect for raising kids.
 
Paris and Toronto are VERY different cities obviously, in almost every respect. One thing that Paris is certainly lacking in with respect to Toronto is the general bar and nightlife scene. Unless you are in the know it's very hard to find good places for drinks in the evening. Especially the smaller, low-key local type places that are everywhere in Toronto nowadays. Likely has something to do with how expensive rents are, and the huge amount of corporate space hidden behind historic facades.

Proviso - I'm simply repeating what has been said by friends/acquaintances who have spent a decent amount of time there. You also may not care as much about this if you are a well-off family as opposed to a young, single person.
 
the lemur said:
Depending on who you talk to, we

a) were once (almost) a world-class city until ___ ruined everything
b) could be a world-class city if only ____
c) will never be a world-class city
c)i) 'which is why I'm leaving'
c)ii) 'and I'm okay with that'

I find this fixation on whether we are or were a world-class city (by what definition?) is a little sad and tiresome. What are we looking to get out of this? For cities that we consider world-class to think of us as their equals? Mention us from time to time in the same breath as their own names? Not feel like they're laughing at us behind our backs for daring to compare ourselves to them?

There are all kinds of great cities of all sizes all around the world and I doubt they lose much sleep over the issue of being world-class or not. It's a little like people who cling to all kinds of vestiges of loyalty to the UK (at the risk of starting an entirely different discussion) in the hope that we'll really matter to them once again, if we ever did. No one told them the UK stopped caring about Canada a long time ago.
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I think the definition itself, and endless arguments over whether we are or not is tiresome, but the concept of how a city is positioned in the world hierarchy of political/financial/technological/cultural power has never ever been a more important issue considering how glocalized we are as a civilization.

AoD
 
niwell said:
Paris and Toronto are VERY different cities obviously, in almost every respect. One thing that Paris is certainly lacking in with respect to Toronto is the general bar and nightlife scene. Unless you are in the know it's very hard to find good places for drinks in the evening. Especially the smaller, low-key local type places that are everywhere in Toronto nowadays. Likely has something to do with how expensive rents are, and the huge amount of corporate space hidden behind historic facades.

Proviso - I'm simply repeating what has been said by friends/acquaintances who have spent a decent amount of time there. You also may not care as much about this if you are a well-off family as opposed to a young, single person.
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Ummm... I'm as much a fanboy of Toronto as anyone on UT, but I think you got your cities transposed in the above commentary.

ETA: While there are only a couple of dusk-to-dawn street fetes in Paris (21 June's Fete de la musique is a highlight all over France), there are 24-hour cafés serving alcohol all night at all the big intersections and nightclubs/jazz bars don't usually open until 11pm and then close at 5-6am(ish). Where did your friends live in Paris? The suburbs?
 
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