News   Mar 28, 2024
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School day/year/years duration

Compared with the 1950's and 1960's, students have more material and subjects to cover. As each year passes, there is more history to learn.

Even mathematics changed, and more than simple addition and subtraction. For income tax for example. Compare the income tax forms from the 1960's with the forms for 2018.

Instead of increasing the years needed for high school education, Mike Harris dropped grade 13. Which meant there is less time for the new subjects and material we need these days.

The sciences in the 1950's didn't include the astronomy we now know, and continuing to learn today.

Everyone should be learning "keyboarding" or "computer skills", with our handheld computers (smartphones or tablets), which we didn't need to learn in the 1950's or 1960's. I remember when typing was not taught for academic or technical students, only for business students.

I attended high school in the 60s and we definitely did take astronomy. Of course, like all sciences and technology subjects, there have been significant advances. As well, while the tax forms certainly have become more complex, the math has not; it is still basic addition and subtraction with a bit of percentage work thrown in. It's not the annual reporting that's the problem but the financial literacy that surrounds it that is lacking.

A big problem impacting contemporary public education compared to days of yore is the expectation that it fill social gaps. Other than perhaps health and 'home ec', in the past the system didn't have to cover matters such as morality, equity, diversity, social justice, etc. I'm not saying those are unimportant topics, but, back in the day', they were not seen as part of the public education system's mandate.

Expecting teenagers to get excited about topics such as history, literature and grammar will always be a tough sell, but properly constructed and communicated ideas are just as important now as before. If anyone thinks an unstructured stream of consciousness, unencumbered by things like punctuation and sentence structure will win than job, sales contract or grant application is in for a surprise.

I did appreciate the comment that the socialization of education has led to the diminishment of the capable rather than the uplifting of the more challenged. The goal should be to equalize (or at least maximize the potential of) opportunity, not outcomes. The will always be future PhD candidates and folks that repair plumbing in every school, but if each was given the chance to explore and maximize their individual aptitude and goals, then the system has largely worked.

Part of the problem is the system, like so many others, has been taken over by academic professionals rather than, as it used to be, by people who started as teachers and worked their way through to administration and into the bureaucracy.

As for keyboarding skills, from what I've seen, thumb typing and exploitation of platforms is doing just fine without formal training. Understanding how any of it actually works, or using it responsibly, is possibly another thing.

All of this has virtually nothing to do with the original topic of classroom duration. Consideration of later calendar starting or stopping would have to take into account shifting climate patterns. Perhaps a shorter break at Christmas to help achieve the desired number of days. Of course there is always the matter of 'professional development' days.
 
These days there is little time (even just for a semester or two) for music, arts, and physical education, in the four years we now have for secondary education. If we had five years, we could have time set aside for them.
HSUQ2Q4K.png
Maybe a semester of cursive writing.
 
These days there is little time (even just for a semester or two) for music, arts, and physical education, in the four years we now have for secondary education. If we had five years, we could have time set aside for them.
HSUQ2Q4K.png
Maybe a semester of cursive writing.

Their have been several reports that suggest the arts are dying in school. The curriculum likes to focus so much on core subjects ( not saying that is a bad thing ), and there needs to be some time set aside for the arts and gym ( Grade 13 is not a good idea, at all)
 
Sorry students, we have no time this year to learn about Ultima Thule in Science class. (If there is a Science class.) You're on your own.

Ultima%20Thule.jpg_16830542_ver1.0_1280_720.jpg

From link.

Now, what I notice with basically every subject is they cram everything into 1 or 2 periods in a day. However, I realize that they don't have a lot of time. Maybe shave 2 PA days, and 1 day off March Break?
 
Or add an extra year (8 different semesters or subjects).

Don't you think a Grade 13 would be a little excessive for the students ? Think about us students for a second, I think maybe a half-year of Gr.13 with 4 semesters/subjects instead ( beginning around August 31st, ending around January 20th, with 1-2 week break in December ).
 
Don't you think a Grade 13 would be a little excessive for the students ? Think about us students for a second, I think maybe a half-year of Gr.13 with 4 semesters/subjects instead ( beginning around August 31st, ending around January 20th, with 1-2 week break in December ).

Maybe allow some students to improve grades to get the needed credits, as needed. No age 18 limit, but must complete the required credits.
 
Maybe allow some students to improve grades to get the needed credits, as needed. No age 18 limit, but must complete the required credits.

That sounds like a good idea, this way, they improve grades, get whatever credits, and allow for some down time with the students.
 
For arts and gym, much of that is being pushed into extracurriculars rather than mandatory.

There is a difference between drama and English (the former focuses on acting while the latter focuses on literature (but not much spelling or grammar)).

How do we develop creative individuals or athletic individuals without being burdened by academics? Academics is important, but not everyone will need them much. Math is still important regardless of one's career choice.

In Canada, high school sports and collegiate sports are not as popular as in the United States.
 
As the father of children in grade school, the length of the school day and the summer break make no sense to me. A lot of people work 9-5, so dismissing kids from school at 3:30 forces people to arrange child care at unaffordable costs. And those two months off in summer are torture for similar reasons, not to mention that their knowledge regresses during that time and they don't have daily structure and mental engagement on the same level for a long time. I don't understand why our society does this.
 
As the father of children in grade school, the length of the school day and the summer break make no sense to me. A lot of people work 9-5, so dismissing kids from school at 3:30 forces people to arrange child care at unaffordable costs. And those two months off in summer are torture for similar reasons, not to mention that their knowledge regresses during that time and they don't have daily structure and mental engagement on the same level for a long time. I don't understand why our society does this.

While the 3:30 dismissal is unlikely to change, every parent I have talk to as a student has said to me it is a challenge getting daycare for two months, for parents like you who work 9-5 jobs.
 
In 1871, Ontario made school compulsory and free up to age 12 (Grade 6). From link. (A lot of kids actually worked for pay by that age.)

When I went to school, in the 1960's, we had to stay in school up to age 16 (Grade 10).

Today, it's up to age 18 (Grade 12).
 
As the father of children in grade school, the length of the school day and the summer break make no sense to me. A lot of people work 9-5, so dismissing kids from school at 3:30 forces people to arrange child care at unaffordable costs. And those two months off in summer are torture for similar reasons, not to mention that their knowledge regresses during that time and they don't have daily structure and mental engagement on the same level for a long time. I don't understand why our society does this.

While it is plausible to extend the school day academically for young children (its been done elsewhere); the evidence for it, as conventional school-time is weak.

Its more likely that childcare/before-after school programs would be integrated on-site. That is already being done in a limited fashion, and could be rolled out over time.

Summers are a different question. Studies clearly show that kids would benefit from a shorter summer break. Malcolm Gladwell's book outliers gets into this a bit in discussion KIPP schools in the US.

I don't think ditching summer vacation all together makes sense; if for no other reason that the opportunity for remedial summer school would evaporate with it.

However, I think a convincing case can be made that summer school (4 weeks) plus 2 more, so that every child gets some time off in the summer would be more than ample.

This, at least, reduces the challenge for parents by 2-3 weeks.

PS.....I have to confess, I never pictured you as a dad! LOL I imagine you as an entertaining parent!

While the 3:30 dismissal is unlikely to change, every parent I have talk to as a student has said to me it is a challenge getting daycare for two months, for parents like you who work 9-5 jobs.

As noted above, I think a shortening of summer time off is entirely feasible.

The question is one of degree.

Most Asian countries do not provide a comparable summer break. Students and the system can manage on somewhat less.

In respect of daily hours, year-round, I think studies have shown teens would benefit from a later start, later stop school-day, even if total hours were unchanged. This does not address the childcare issue for younger children.

Nonetheless, based on evidence of academic performance improvements I would support shifting HS hours to 9:30-4pm if not 10-4:30.

This, interesting has an added benefit in reducing unsupervised time for teen boys after school when they are most likely to get themselves into trouble.
 

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