syn
Senior Member
I actually like the idea of Ryerson spreading on both Yonge and Church.
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alklay
Senior Member
Doesn't the fact that there will be new retail at the bottom of a new building on Yonge Street pave the way, sooner rather than later, for "potential big retailers to move in' on Yonge? And how does this building prevent "more large retail anchors" from opening on Yonge?
Tuscani01
Senior Member
Ryerson holds an annual 'Design Exchange'. Its a campus event ad.
urbanvillageboy
New Member
I really believe that you're thinking too rigidly. Great streets always have more than just retail on them. People do more with their lives than just shop. Besides we're talking about one block, not a vast expanse of street.
wyliepoon
Senior Member
re: Tewder's post (don't want to re-quote something that's been quoted many times already)
I wonder what "big retailer" would fit in that space? Are we talking big as in big in size (Walmart? Home Depot?) or big in terms of quality (Apple Store?). Nobody would support the former, in light of historic preservation and the presence of some healthy businesses on the east side of Yonge. I would support the latter, but I can't see how it can't coexist with a Ryerson presence on Yonge Street.
I wonder what "big retailer" would fit in that space? Are we talking big as in big in size (Walmart? Home Depot?) or big in terms of quality (Apple Store?). Nobody would support the former, in light of historic preservation and the presence of some healthy businesses on the east side of Yonge. I would support the latter, but I can't see how it can't coexist with a Ryerson presence on Yonge Street.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
wylie:
Pure conjecture on my part, but I don't see how that can be overly difficult. Assuming that ground/second floor of the midblock is devoted mostly to retail space, the main vertical circulation elements for Ryerson can be 1) at the ends of the site (Gerrard/Gould); 2) small mid-block entrance the width of a storefront or two; 3) linkage with the existing podium level and 4) closing the existing laneway. The mentioned 4 as a potential possiblity at the meeting.
AoD
Pure conjecture on my part, but I don't see how that can be overly difficult. Assuming that ground/second floor of the midblock is devoted mostly to retail space, the main vertical circulation elements for Ryerson can be 1) at the ends of the site (Gerrard/Gould); 2) small mid-block entrance the width of a storefront or two; 3) linkage with the existing podium level and 4) closing the existing laneway. The mentioned 4 as a potential possiblity at the meeting.
AoD
Tewder
Senior Member
...of course they do, but on Yonge street between Queen and Bloor they largely shop, and eat, and drink, and spend money, and see nudies. What's wrong with that?
urbanvillageboy
New Member
I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that but what's wrong with mixing it up a bit. I think you're misreading what I said and I also think that your conception of things remains rigid. I hardly think that one block of university construction is going to make a huge difference to all that. However, the street is badly in need of an upgrade and has been for decades. I credit Ryerson with undertaking that task in this spot.
I think this will enrich the street. In Montreal, Concordia built its visual arts building right on Ste. Catherine Street. Now there are art students drinking coffee in the cafes and having dinner in dozens of surrounding restaurants. It's enlivened the scene considerably.
I think the problem is getting used to change. Ironically that's the one constant of cities- they change, and at an increasingly rapid pace. Change can be painful if it feels like a part of your own past is being wiped out. Our assumptions about our environment are constantly being shaken up by changes happening on the streets. I regard cities a bit like the natural environment- they are complex and they evolve. There's a complex ecology even at street level that changes in unforseen ways when new elements are added.
Tewder
Senior Member
Ground level retail would be better than nothing but I don't see that it 'paves the way' for large retailers. Do Crate & Barrel want a big Ryerson sign over their entrance? And just how large a retail space will there be without being able to add floors?
... once the precedence is set what's to stop Ryerson from buying up other lots along Yonge?
canarob
Senior Member
How is that any different than the business building? I think the fact that they want two floors of retail will make it fairly big.
In terms of the space itself, whatever is built will be more functional than Sam's and FS, which were terribly awkward.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Large retailers are actually more likely to happen with Ryerson around, not less - considering the retail space provided will be modern (given the newness of the structure) without the headaches associated with land assembly. From Ryerson's perspective, it would also be desirable to have a retailer that is likely to stay around for a long time to reduce the risk.
Not very likely, considering the expense of land acquisition. Beyond that, Ryerson is not likely to be interested in Yonge street properties significantly north of Gerrard (and the retail for this stretch is already depressed) - and whatever retail south of Gerrard and north of Gould is of very little long-term value. I don't see them getting Zanzibar anytime soon though, considering the grandfathered clause.
AoD
Tewder
Senior Member
Urbanvillage:
Yonge and Bloor Streets are Toronto's prime retail strips, and Yonge/Dundas is a prime nexus of this. Wasn't the whole point of TLS and the development of Yonge/Dundas Square to create an environment that would encourage and hopefully sustain a healthy critical mass of retail that would be able to revitalize a dying retail strip?
Yonge and Bloor Streets are Toronto's prime retail strips, and Yonge/Dundas is a prime nexus of this. Wasn't the whole point of TLS and the development of Yonge/Dundas Square to create an environment that would encourage and hopefully sustain a healthy critical mass of retail that would be able to revitalize a dying retail strip?
Tewder
Senior Member
Yikes, I can't type fast enough to respond to all these posts
Canarob: The type of international retail chain that would want a flagship presence on a revitalized strip like Yonge, or on Bloor for that matter would definately want multiple stories. If you look at some of the big retailers that have already moved in around the Yonge/Dundas area most of them have several stories in very large spaces. The rents are very expensive for a small boutique-type location, and the whole point after all is about exposure for the brand.
Tewder
Senior Member
I hope so AoD. I know I'm sounding alarmist about this, but I hope you understand my concern.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
The Ryerson plan envisions the first few stories to be housing retail functions - if you look at the current distribution of retail space, it doesn't usually go above 2 or 3 floors up. The basement levels are likely to be retail oriented as well.
AoD