Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

[innsertnamehere]

11 north of Orillia is the worst culprit for abandonment and that's honestly because MTO plans to expropriate a good chunk of them in the future to widen 11 and upgrade it to a full freeway. As a result, none of the landowners will invest significant amounts of cash in the properties as they don't know when MTO will move in and shut them down.

 

[Kitsune]

.. iirc the bridges over the highway 11 riro are end of life in the 2030s .. so possibly thats when something needs to be done. Highway 11 interestingly is not full freeway to North Bay .. there are numerous at grade intersections. I really dont get why the province feels full freeway is needed to four lane something outside of North Western Ontario (and the four laning being done in Northwestern Ontario should be full freeway to further reduce collision risk where its the only road available).

 

[2323]

.. iirc the bridges over the highway 11 riro are end of life in the 2030s .

Weren't a bunch replaced already?

 

[innsertnamehere]

.. iirc the bridges over the highway 11 riro are end of life in the 2030s .. so possibly thats when something needs to be done. Highway 11 interestingly is not full freeway to North Bay .. there are numerous at grade intersections. I really dont get why the province feels full freeway is needed to four lane something outside of North Western Ontario (and the four laning being done in Northwestern Ontario should be full freeway to further reduce collision risk where its the only road available).

A lot of them have just recently been rehabilitated. I don't think MTO is thinking to do much with the highway any time soon. MTO did complete an EA on how to upgrade the highway to a freeway north of Orillia about a decade ago to start buying up land for it, but I don't believe they have completed the same study for south of Orillia yet.

If anything happens on 11 soon, it'll be fixing the tight curve in Gravenhurst which is starting to cause backups on summer weekends. The highway otherwise still operates generally fine.

MTO is also modernizing the interchanges through Orillia right now - West St was done this year and the two Hwy 12 interchanges are scheduled for replacement in the next year or two.

 

[Garuda]

Weren't a bunch replaced already?

They were but few of the replacements are widened to full freeway standards. That is - no pillar in the middle. They are all still RIRO.

After driving Highway 11 on a week night I can see why the MTO isn't rushing to complete the work - the highway is empty. But should be upgraded to full freeway status sooner than later.

 

[lenaitch]

RIROs aren’t necessarily to blame.

Fair point. Things like changing travel patterns killed a lot of small motels, restaurants and gas stations, but I was living and working in the area when 'the beam' went in and the change was fairly dramatic. I still see structures there that have sat unchanged since then; although the logic of why makes sense.

I really dont get why the province feels full freeway is needed to four lane something outside of North Western Ontario (and the four laning being done in Northwestern Ontario should be full freeway to further reduce collision risk where its the only road available).

I don't know the logic of 'Hwy 400 vs Hwy 11' design criteria either. One problem with 'full freewaying' in the north is how to accommodate residences, roads, etc. that are scattered over long distances. You have to have either many, expensive interchanges or very long service roads to service very low volumes. Most of the at-grade intersections on Hwy 11 are very low volume and I suspect but don't know, have a pretty low collision rate. The two that were 'problematic' at Port Sydney and Powassan have been closed. Quite frankly, I think Hwy 400 north of Barrie could have been built to Hwy 11 standards but that's just me.

the highway is empty. But should be upgraded to full freeway status sooner than later

The inherent logic in that statement is inconsistent. We need to spend not-insignificant public money to fulfill public needs. So long as it safe to a reasonable standard, that should be sufficient. Sure, a fully grade-separated highway might be somewhat safer or more stress-free, but at what cost if the volumes aren't there. If you travel on some of the US Interstates in upper Maine, Minnesota or even Michigan you get the sense of 'overkill'.

 

[drum118]

Fair point. Things like changing travel patterns killed a lot of small motels, restaurants and gas stations, but I was living and working in the area when 'the beam' went in and the change was fairly dramatic. I still see structures there that have sat unchanged since then; although the logic of why makes sense.


I don't know the logic of 'Hwy 400 vs Hwy 11' design criteria either. One problem with 'full freewaying' in the north is how to accommodate residences, roads, etc. that are scattered over long distances. You have to have either many, expensive interchanges or very long service roads to service very low volumes. Most of the at-grade intersections on Hwy 11 are very low volume and I suspect but don't know, have a pretty low collision rate. The two that were 'problematic' at Port Sydney and Powassan have been closed. Quite frankly, I think Hwy 400 north of Barrie could have been built to Hwy 11 standards but that's just me.


The inherent logic in that statement is inconsistent. We need to spend not-insignificant public money to fulfill public needs. So long as it safe to a reasonable standard, that should be sufficient. Sure, a fully grade-separated highway might be somewhat safer or more stress-free, but at what cost if the volumes aren't there. If you travel on some of the US Interstates in upper Maine, Minnesota or even Michigan you get the sense of 'overkill'.

From Banger to Canada on I-95 is a good example of overkill. Can't recall if it was 4 or 6 lanes when I drove it back in 2014 with very little traffic on it

I-75 from Flint to Canada is another one I have driven.

I-79 from Fargo to Canada is another one.

In parts of New Mexico and Texas are overkill, but helps to deal with flat land and wide open areas.

There are a number of US highway that need another lane or 2 as you are lucky to do the speed limit, especially on hills for truckers. Then I have seen truckers in all 3 lanes with a long line of traffic behind them.

 

[Highway 7]

They need to convert the Hanlon Exp. to a full freeway, and make it continue on as Hwy. 7 and connect to the Conestoga Parkway in K-W. They need to extend that highway to Stratford. Also a freeway connecting Cambridge to Hamilton directly or via Brantford would be nice. Also extend the 400 to Sudbury (which is in the plans anyway). They should complete the gap in the freeway to Peterborough. Finally, it's time for there to be a ring road around London, ON and a freeway linking the 416 to the 417 in the south of Ottawa.

But the Number 1 (!!!) priority IMO is to extend the 401 to Michigan. It's ridiculous that trucks need to rumble by neighborhoods, 14 traffic lights, and a railroad crossing on their way to the most heavily used border crossing in Canada.

With the four-laning of 7/8 to Stratford, that gives me an opportunity to voice my two cents.
I was really thinking about a freeway from the 401 in Ingersoll to Stratford, given that the 7/8 would be widened, of course. In my case, I thought of something like this:
Highway 401 - At the interchange with Highway 19, continue north as a bypass around Ingersoll.
Highway 7 - There is currently a roundabout there; maybe elbow the new freeway around that roundabout and conjoin it with Highway 7/*19*.
About one kilometer south of Stratford - The freeway would jog towards the right, and make southerly bypass around Stratford and therefore truncate at the 7/8 freeway.
And make sure to NOT rape smaller communities on that route.
Name? Maybe "419", but it doesn't have to be.
Most of this route (excluding elbows around towns, traffic circles, etc.) will literally be along County Road 119 (Oxford, Perth).

-I don't really think this will happen, nor can I find any reason for it to. I am open to feedback.
Edit: And it's most likely overkill for that area, as I travelled it a few times and it wasn't too bad. Yes, there was traffic, but there was no such thing as a clog in the flow.-

 

[innsertnamehere]

With the four-laning of 7/8 to Stratford, that gives me an opportunity to voice my two cents.
I was really thinking about a freeway from the 401 in Ingersoll to Stratford, given that the 7/8 would be widened, of course. In my case, I thought of something like this:
Highway 401 - At the interchange with Highway 19, continue north as a bypass around Ingersoll.
Highway 7 - There is currently a roundabout there; maybe elbow the new freeway around that roundabout and conjoin it with Highway 7/*19*.
About one kilometer south of Stratford - The freeway would jog towards the right, and make southerly bypass around Stratford and therefore truncate at the 7/8 freeway.
And make sure to NOT rape smaller communities on that route.
Name? Maybe "419", but it doesn't have to be.
Most of this route (excluding elbows around towns, traffic circles, etc.) will literally be along County Road 119 (Oxford, Perth).

-I don't really think this will happen, nor can I find any reason for it to. I am open to feedback.
Edit: And it's most likely overkill for that area, as I travelled it a few times and it wasn't too bad. Yes, there was traffic, but there was no such thing as a clog in the flow.-

MTO has plans to upgrade 7/8 to Stratford but it won't be a full freeway.

Surprisingly, the website is still up for it and you can view the plans:

Highway 7/8 Transportation Corridor & Class EA Study

www.7and8corridorstudy.ca

 

[Highway 7]

MTO has plans to upgrade 7/8 to Stratford but it won't be a full freeway.

Surprisingly, the website is still up for it and you can view the plans:

Highway 7/8 Transportation Corridor & Class EA Study

www.7and8corridorstudy.ca

In which case, are they doing something similar to what they did with Highway 11 from Barrie to North Bay?
Maybe my own proposal wouldn't need to be a full-fledged freeway either (except the Ingersoll part).

 

[Bojaxs]

Does anyone here regularly drive in the Niagara region? Just wondering how the new Diverging Diamond Interchange is working out at the Glendale ramps on the QEW.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Does anyone here regularly drive in the Niagara region? Just wondering how the new Diverging Diamond Interchange is working out at the Glendale ramps on the QEW.

I've driven over it twice now - works nice. I've driven on Diverging Diamonds in the US as well in the past so it's not a surprise to me.

 

[PinkLucy]

I've been by that way a few times with no issues

 

[north-of-anything]

Does anyone here regularly drive in the Niagara region? Just wondering how the new Diverging Diamond Interchange is working out at the Glendale ramps on the QEW.

I've been through it a couple of times. It was a little slow to get through the first time, when it was still very new, but other than that I think it works fine. I'm hoping that eventually we'll get one at Mapleview Drive here in Barrie - that interchange is complete chaos right now, and I avoid it at all costs.

 

[Highway 7]

Correct the 401-409-427-410 mess that exists now to relieve the bottleneck that exists now.

What, this??
Thought I'd post this in case someone has a visual idea on how to fix this (I don't have a solid one yet).