Roads: Keep the Gardiner, fix it, or get rid of it? (2005-2014)

[bgobgo]

Link to a Christopher Hume article about the Gardiner being at a crossroads is below. Perhaps most interesting quote part of this article is the following..


“The Gardiner doesn’t need to go east of York,” he explains. “You could ramp it down between Spadina and York and bifurcate it into two east/west avenues along Lake Shore and Harbour St. That would eliminate the problems of all those squirrely ramps that cause much of the congestion.”


Most of the traffic comes from the west and exits before York. Traffic coming from the east would use the two new boulevards. Only 20 percent of rides go through the city, which means most usage is local.



http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/01/24/gardiner_at_the_crossroads_hume.html

 

[innsertnamehere]

A post I made on reddit:

It's not like the traffic is going to disappear though. Instead of flying by it will be sitting at the traffic lights on a 10 lane road that pedestrians somehow have to cross. To make it pedestrian friendly, reduce the lanes on lakeshore, put up some sort of sound barrier, stick some LED lights underneath, and you are set. A huge portion of the eastern gardiner is so far up in the air that it is barely noticeably anyway.
I maintain that the thing over people's heads isn't the thing that makes the area feel pedestrian unfriendly, it's the shitty configuration of lakeshore and the desolation of the landscaping below. Look at underpass park, underpasses can easily be inviting places that don't comprimise important economic arteries that run above.

 

[bgobgo]

Well said innsertnamehere! Some great points.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

A post I made on reddit:

It's not like the traffic is going to disappear though. Instead of flying by it will be sitting at the traffic lights on a 10 lane road that pedestrians somehow have to cross. To make it pedestrian friendly, reduce the lanes on lakeshore, put up some sort of sound barrier, stick some LED lights underneath, and you are set. A huge portion of the eastern gardiner is so far up in the air that it is barely noticeably anyway.
I maintain that the thing over people's heads isn't the thing that makes the area feel pedestrian unfriendly, it's the shitty configuration of lakeshore and the desolation of the landscaping below. Look at underpass park, underpasses can easily be inviting places that don't comprimise important economic arteries that run above.

I second this. The only way we make the gardiner more pedestrian friendly is with a prohbitivly expnsive tunnel

 

[ehlow]

I don't feel like much effort has been made to try to make the areas under the Gardiner pedestrian friendly, other than the one playground. It may be difficult, but I feel like we should at least try our best to activate the area under the Gardiner if it is possible, rather than leave it as a barren wasteland.

That park I mentioned put basketball courts & a playground underneath right?

We could experiment with various things to see if they work:
Would better lighting help?
What if we allowed food vendors to set up in certain areas? Or small temporary buildings for food vendors?
Maybe small trees or more grass or plants would make it more welcoming?
In the summer, being in the shade is not necessarily a bad thing. Is it possible to set up a patio and serve drinks? Or just benches & seats?
There are a lot of parking lots near by, but also many residential towers. Could we set up temporary structures on the parking lots to bring retail or food into the area?

I'm not sure if any of the above would work, but it seems like it might be worth trying as an experiment. If they fail, then we know that we can't create a pedestrian friendly area underneath a highway.


If you've ever done Ride for Heart, you'll know that biking on the Gardiner is an amazing way to experience the city, you feel like you're sailing through a forest of skyscrapers. It's incredible. Wouldn't it be amazing if there were a biking/jogging/walking path on the Gardiner like the High Line in Manhattan? Driving on it is great as well, but there's something special about biking on it.
It's possible that this could be on top of the current highway like the walkway on the Brooklyn Bridge, but it would truly be amazing if it were converted into a park like the High Line, with great views the whole way across. It would be great for tourists & visitors, but also for all the people moving into condos near the Gardiner. Imagine being about to go for a run 5 min walk from your condo with spectacular views.

I know what I said above could be politically very difficult. Is it impossible though? Who would've thought in the 90s that Times Square would have a huge pedestrian plaza on it, or that the abandoned elevated railway High Line would be a park with people sunbathing, with cafe's or musicians performing?

Another idea: what if we used the Gardiner for grade-separated transit?

In my opinion, the elevated structure could potentially be a huge asset, and it affords great views of the city that would be lost forever if we tear it down.

 

[innsertnamehere]

The park is under the Eastern Ave. Overpass that connects to Richmond & Adelaide, but yes.

 

[ksun]

I maintain that the thing over people's heads isn't the thing that makes the area feel pedestrian unfriendly, it's the shitty configuration of lakeshore and the desolation of the landscaping below.

Although I support full demolition, I completely agree with this.
The highway itself was not designed to minimize impact on pedestrians at all, and the configuration of Lakeshore between York and Jarvis is a disaster and never improved from its industrial minded era.

 

[Palma]

Perserve the Gardiner for what? Take it down. Its true also that stretch where lakeshore is and the width and having to cross it is dangerous and i hate it the few times I have had to do it.

 

[ksun]

I second this. The only way we make the gardiner more pedestrian friendly is with a prohbitivly expnsive tunnel

No point in wasting that much money.
Just tear the damn thing down, and develop the area with buildings and parks where it once stands. Lakeshore doesn't need to be 10 lane at all, at most six lane like University ave, preferably just four.

Traffic, drivers will find alternatives. They always do. There is no traffic disaster to happen.

Those who need to come to downtown should take transit, and if they really need to drive (trucks etc), there is Richmond/Adelaide as well as Lakeshore which are fully functional. Those who just "pass by", take the damn 407. It costs some money but way faster. The idea of crossing the downtown of Toronto just to get to the other side is ridiculous.

 

[ksun]

Perserve the Gardiner for what? Take it down. Its true also that stretch where lakeshore is and the width and having to cross it is dangerous and i hate it the few times I have had to do it.

It is pretty much the suburbs south of Front/Esplanade, where cars are the king and pedestrians risk their lives trying to access the waterfront every time. Need to wait for a million cars to swoop by before they can cross all those barren and noisy roads. And most of the cars are just passing by.

 

[scott pilgrim]

Screw Sir JAM Station!

I propose a motion to rename the Gardiner after Rob Ford, so we can watch it crumble slowly year after year, due to lack of maintenance and general abuse. Taking along with it hundreds of innocent citizens who will fall through the growing cracks in the system. Until such a time that the highway is a shell of its former self. A skeletal husk of useless grey matter. Then, we shall look at it in awe, as it has become a monument to the War On the Car. A war hard fought, for which there were no winners. And every year, around the day of the first crack revelation, the remaining members of the religious sect "Ford Nation" shall gather in quiet prayer: "Subways... Subways... Subways..."

 

[devjohnson]

No point in wasting that much money.
Just tear the damn thing down, and develop the area with buildings and parks where it once stands. Lakeshore doesn't need to be 10 lane at all, at most six lane like University ave, preferably just four.

Traffic, drivers will find alternatives. They always do. There is no traffic disaster to happen.

Those who need to come to downtown should take transit, and if they really need to drive (trucks etc), there is Richmond/Adelaide as well as Lakeshore which are fully functional. Those who just "pass by", take the damn 407. It costs some money but way faster. The idea of crossing the downtown of Toronto just to get to the other side is ridiculous.

+1

Traffic will get a bit worse, but drivers will find alternative - hopefully switching over to public transit.

Besides, if we waste billions on a tunnel, it only encourages more people to bring their cars downtown. Once they open up a tunnel, over time it'll just get crowded and gridblocked again. There has to be a point where you stop expanding...what's going to happen 20 years from now when even more development comes downtown? Do people expect the city should expand the Gardiner even more?

There's no use making a tunnel when it would just hold over traffic problems for 10 years at most.

 

[Roy G Biv]

It's just weird: I am in cities all over the world every year, and there are tunnels everywhere... no big deal. Here in Toronto, the biggest city in one of the richest countries in the world, it's a friggin 20 year referendum of public opinion on whether to build one.

 

[the lemur]

Has the option of putting the Gardiner below grade between or beside the Lake Shore been put forward yet?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

No point in wasting that much money.

And I definitely wasn't suggesting that we do that. Huge waste of money.

I'm also going to go ahead and backtrack on, "the only way we make the gardiner more pedestrian friendly is with a prohibitively expensive tunnel"

This looks like a very pleasant boulevard to walk on: