LordWanker
Active Member
Have you seen the prices of petrol in Europe?
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Roads: Increase Ontario 400-series Highway Speed Limit
- Thread starter chrison
- Start date
Have you seen the prices of petrol in Europe?
chrison
New Member
Yes, they have much higher octane # (up to 98) and higher taxes on just about everything. I still don't see how that relates to the provincial speed limit and our personal driving habits here in Ontario.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
People speed so much in Ontario because the speed limits on highways are unreasonably low. In the southern states, for example, the limit is usually 70 but almost nobody drives more than 5 miles over. I remember being astounded in Mississippi when my digital speedometer showed that not a single person was going even a mile over 70. Our rural road limits are also very low by international standards, especially given the relatively straight and empty roads in many cases. Most American rural roads have a limit of 55 (around 90 km/h) and in Europe, limits over 100 km/h on a two-lane rural road are not uncommon. A reasonable speed limit with real enforcement (including photo radar) makes much more sense to me than the present situation.
CDL.TO
Moderator
Not true. They just use a different formula to calculate the octane number.
nfitz
Superstar
That's nothing to do with the limit being low (and is 70 high? Ours is 62.5 ...). In England it's 70 and many drive 80-90.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
After taking a road trip to florida over the break, i too can say that in the states when the limit is 75, people generally don't do over 80.
TOareaFan
Superstar
CodeMonkey
Active Member
I remember reading somewhere that 401 was designed to allow cars to drive safely at 120 km/h, but why it was set at 100 km/h was that no matter what you put the limit at, people will always drive 10-20 km/h over the set limit. So if we did have it at 120 km/h people will end up driving at 130-140 km/h.
Superhighways. Where?
New Member
*****Did you know that Ontario Canada has some of the slowest highway speed limits in the entire developed world?
In fact even against developing nations such as Pakistan, Ontario is slower.
Pakistan - 120 kph
Ontario - 100 kph
Bottom line......................................Ontario is slower than Pakistan. (It's simply a fact and not a racist comment).
.............and you wonder why all the manufacturing jobs are going overseas? Ontario's archaic road and rail transportation systems are some of the factors affecting the economic situation here. I'm embarrassed to live in Ontario, Canaduh.
In fact even against developing nations such as Pakistan, Ontario is slower.
Pakistan - 120 kph
Ontario - 100 kph
Bottom line......................................Ontario is slower than Pakistan. (It's simply a fact and not a racist comment).
.............and you wonder why all the manufacturing jobs are going overseas? Ontario's archaic road and rail transportation systems are some of the factors affecting the economic situation here. I'm embarrassed to live in Ontario, Canaduh.
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spider
Senior Member
The exits are clearly marked.
Superhighways. Where?
New Member
Found this news article that was printed in the newspaper about the development of superhighways:
Frustrated with gridlock? Tired of high traffic volumes? Looking for the true freedom of safer, more enjoyable and better driving? The idea of Ontario’s new Super Highway program may just be your answer.
MTO (Ministry of Transportation of Ontario) operated highways currently have some of the slowest speed limits in the entire developed world. In some countries, people travel more than twice as fast as in Ontario. Super Highway systems have been in place and operating successfully in those countries for many years. Although road transportation is the core of business, Ontario lags far behind much of the world in highway travel.
Considering the number of people, goods and services that are presently transported through highway systems, it would make sense for Ontario to use the Super Highway program. Many existing sections of Ontario’s 400 series highways (example highways 400, 401, 407) would be suitable for this type of Super Highway development. Other secondary two lane, divided MTO operated provincial highways (example highways 402, 403, Hwy 7/8 west of Kitchener), would also use this concept. The Super Highway program could be implemented into any existing two or more lane divided highway sections of our present provincial highways. Not all sections of our existing provincial highways could be part of the Super Highway system as highways passing through cities and built up areas would remain non-Super Highway zones.
Successive sections of designated Super Highway could be linked together with Ontario’s present non-Super Highway sections. On most of the 400-Series highways, existing sections of highway are sufficient and the tapers of the entry/exit ramps are also better than other Super Highway systems in the world. As well, there are wide paved shoulders on either one or both sides of Ontario’s provincial highways which are safety features not found in other Super Highway systems of the world. In fact, Ontario’s Super Highways are already built, but unfortunately are not being used as such.
The Super Highway program would operate at very little cost. It would all be done easily through a few minor structured step by step driving changes that require following only a few simple changes to the “rules of the road” as listed below. Cars, motorcycles, passenger vans, crossovers, SUV’s and pickup trucks would be considered to be light vehicles. Trucks, buses and motor homes would be considered heavy vehicles. Towing a trailer behind a light vehicle or carrying a load in a light vehicle would classify the vehicle as a heavy vehicle for traveling on the new Super Highway sections.
Light vehicles would ONLY pass on the left in designated areas of Super Highway sections. There would be NO passing on the right at highway speeds. Mirrors on most vehicles are already set up to give better visibility for passing on the left. Light vehicles would not be allowed to continuously travel along in the left hand lane for extended periods of time and would not be allowed to block other light vehicles from passing. The exception to passing on the right would be in a traffic slowdown area below 30 kph, where passing on the right could be practiced with caution.
The far right hand lane would be used whenever it is free, regardless of vehicle type. However when heavy vehicles are traveling in the right lane, the center lane(s) of a 3 or more lane Super Highway section could be used as the “cruise” lane for light vehicles. Slower traffic would be required to stay in the right lane.
Light vehicles would have to be driven according to their respective handling and performance capabilities. Heavy vehicles in the new Super Highway areas would travel at a speed limit of 110 kph in favorable weather conditions. Heavy vehicles would be required to use the far right hand lane in the Super Highway areas. They would be allowed to pass another heavy vehicle on the left in frequent heavy vehicle passing zones located in non-Super Highway sections (steep hills, highway on ramps, around city centers) and would be given a reasonable distance to pass. Light vehicles would be given specific speed limits where there are truck passing zones. Keeping heavy vehicles free of the center lanes in the Super Highway sections would allow light vehicles to pass quickly and lower the light vehicle traffic volume. Reducing the interaction between light and heavy vehicles could improve highway safety.
Light vehicles would not be allowed to inhibit the speed of heavy vehicles in the right lane. In the event of a traffic slowdown, heavy vehicles would be allowed to pass on the right below 30 kph in the Super Highway sections. On the Super Highway sections, all vehicles would go back to the present speed limits if the weather or road conditions became unfavorable for driving. There are already existing provisions in the Highway Traffic Act covering this driving condition. In the event of a traffic slowdown, all vehicles approaching the traffic slowdown area would be required to warn the drivers behind them, using their 4 way flashers as they approached the traffic slowdown area.
The Blood Alcohol limit on these new Super Highway sections could be lowered.
A few minor changes would have to be made to our present provincial MTO divided highways in order for them to become Super Highways.
Limit the sections of this new Super Highway to those sections which have a 5 percent road gradient or less. In other words, the new Super Highway sections of our existing provincial highway infrastructure would not be in areas where there are steep hills. On sharper curves of existing 2 or more lane divided provincial highways, specific speed limits could be imposed if needed, in the new Super Highway designated sections.
Police using the new Super Highway could be given vehicles that are far superior in performance, handling, comfort, acceleration, braking, emissions and fuel economy than they presently have although the present police vehicles could serve until new replacements arrived. Speed limits for light vehicles could easily be raised by 30 kph over present speed limits in some existing non-Super Highway built up areas.
As for the Super Highway itself, it only has to have proper signs to get this system in place and signs aren’t expensive either. Start the program in the designated Super Highway sections as soon as the new signs are up stating the minor changes to the “rules of the road”. At the beginning of the program, strictly enforce the rules of the road as listed above. We are going to make the Super Highway sections safer before improving them. A couple of months later, increase the speed limit to a 140 kph advisory speed limit for light vehicles, not strict general speed limits as we now have. Yellow advisory speed limit signs allow light vehicles to drive at speeds which are governed by the amount of traffic volume and the surrounding traffic speed. Then a couple of months after increasing to the 140 kph advisory speed limit, deregulate the advisory speed limit for light vehicles and post it as unlimited speed. Light vehicles would not be suppressed by the repressive general speed limits we currently have. Traffic volumes and travel times would be reduced.
This new Super Highway system could be started within one year. Phasing it in over several months, a few sections at a time, would give drivers the chance to easily become comfortable with it. It would also give the MTO time to make minor adjustments where deemed necessary. Until the Super Highway program is place, there isn’t the demand to make major advancements in automotive technology. As a result of the new Super Highway program, the automotive manufacturing sector could itself be revolutionized, producing many new jobs for years to come. New design, engineering and manufacturing techniques could be developed as
advancements could be made in aerodynamics, engine, power train, emissions, fuel economy, electronics, comfort, suspension, handling and intelligent advanced driving systems for both light and heavy vehicles.
All businesses in Ontario would benefit from reduced travel time costs as a result of the Super Highway system. It would allow companies to do more business in less time and save you money in travel time costs. A lesser version of the Super Highway program would not allow Canada to be at the forefront of highway development in North America.
If you like the idea of developing true Super Highways in Ontario, contact your local member of provincial parliament. Let’s move, Ontario!!
Looks as if the original full version was posted here:
http://www.timminstoday.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3936&Itemid=1
Seems to be a condensed version of it printed in the Toronto Sun.
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/06/29/eliminate-speed-limits-on-our-highways
Frustrated with gridlock? Tired of high traffic volumes? Looking for the true freedom of safer, more enjoyable and better driving? The idea of Ontario’s new Super Highway program may just be your answer.
MTO (Ministry of Transportation of Ontario) operated highways currently have some of the slowest speed limits in the entire developed world. In some countries, people travel more than twice as fast as in Ontario. Super Highway systems have been in place and operating successfully in those countries for many years. Although road transportation is the core of business, Ontario lags far behind much of the world in highway travel.
Considering the number of people, goods and services that are presently transported through highway systems, it would make sense for Ontario to use the Super Highway program. Many existing sections of Ontario’s 400 series highways (example highways 400, 401, 407) would be suitable for this type of Super Highway development. Other secondary two lane, divided MTO operated provincial highways (example highways 402, 403, Hwy 7/8 west of Kitchener), would also use this concept. The Super Highway program could be implemented into any existing two or more lane divided highway sections of our present provincial highways. Not all sections of our existing provincial highways could be part of the Super Highway system as highways passing through cities and built up areas would remain non-Super Highway zones.
Successive sections of designated Super Highway could be linked together with Ontario’s present non-Super Highway sections. On most of the 400-Series highways, existing sections of highway are sufficient and the tapers of the entry/exit ramps are also better than other Super Highway systems in the world. As well, there are wide paved shoulders on either one or both sides of Ontario’s provincial highways which are safety features not found in other Super Highway systems of the world. In fact, Ontario’s Super Highways are already built, but unfortunately are not being used as such.
The Super Highway program would operate at very little cost. It would all be done easily through a few minor structured step by step driving changes that require following only a few simple changes to the “rules of the road” as listed below. Cars, motorcycles, passenger vans, crossovers, SUV’s and pickup trucks would be considered to be light vehicles. Trucks, buses and motor homes would be considered heavy vehicles. Towing a trailer behind a light vehicle or carrying a load in a light vehicle would classify the vehicle as a heavy vehicle for traveling on the new Super Highway sections.
Light vehicles would ONLY pass on the left in designated areas of Super Highway sections. There would be NO passing on the right at highway speeds. Mirrors on most vehicles are already set up to give better visibility for passing on the left. Light vehicles would not be allowed to continuously travel along in the left hand lane for extended periods of time and would not be allowed to block other light vehicles from passing. The exception to passing on the right would be in a traffic slowdown area below 30 kph, where passing on the right could be practiced with caution.
The far right hand lane would be used whenever it is free, regardless of vehicle type. However when heavy vehicles are traveling in the right lane, the center lane(s) of a 3 or more lane Super Highway section could be used as the “cruise” lane for light vehicles. Slower traffic would be required to stay in the right lane.
Light vehicles would have to be driven according to their respective handling and performance capabilities. Heavy vehicles in the new Super Highway areas would travel at a speed limit of 110 kph in favorable weather conditions. Heavy vehicles would be required to use the far right hand lane in the Super Highway areas. They would be allowed to pass another heavy vehicle on the left in frequent heavy vehicle passing zones located in non-Super Highway sections (steep hills, highway on ramps, around city centers) and would be given a reasonable distance to pass. Light vehicles would be given specific speed limits where there are truck passing zones. Keeping heavy vehicles free of the center lanes in the Super Highway sections would allow light vehicles to pass quickly and lower the light vehicle traffic volume. Reducing the interaction between light and heavy vehicles could improve highway safety.
Light vehicles would not be allowed to inhibit the speed of heavy vehicles in the right lane. In the event of a traffic slowdown, heavy vehicles would be allowed to pass on the right below 30 kph in the Super Highway sections. On the Super Highway sections, all vehicles would go back to the present speed limits if the weather or road conditions became unfavorable for driving. There are already existing provisions in the Highway Traffic Act covering this driving condition. In the event of a traffic slowdown, all vehicles approaching the traffic slowdown area would be required to warn the drivers behind them, using their 4 way flashers as they approached the traffic slowdown area.
The Blood Alcohol limit on these new Super Highway sections could be lowered.
A few minor changes would have to be made to our present provincial MTO divided highways in order for them to become Super Highways.
Limit the sections of this new Super Highway to those sections which have a 5 percent road gradient or less. In other words, the new Super Highway sections of our existing provincial highway infrastructure would not be in areas where there are steep hills. On sharper curves of existing 2 or more lane divided provincial highways, specific speed limits could be imposed if needed, in the new Super Highway designated sections.
Police using the new Super Highway could be given vehicles that are far superior in performance, handling, comfort, acceleration, braking, emissions and fuel economy than they presently have although the present police vehicles could serve until new replacements arrived. Speed limits for light vehicles could easily be raised by 30 kph over present speed limits in some existing non-Super Highway built up areas.
As for the Super Highway itself, it only has to have proper signs to get this system in place and signs aren’t expensive either. Start the program in the designated Super Highway sections as soon as the new signs are up stating the minor changes to the “rules of the road”. At the beginning of the program, strictly enforce the rules of the road as listed above. We are going to make the Super Highway sections safer before improving them. A couple of months later, increase the speed limit to a 140 kph advisory speed limit for light vehicles, not strict general speed limits as we now have. Yellow advisory speed limit signs allow light vehicles to drive at speeds which are governed by the amount of traffic volume and the surrounding traffic speed. Then a couple of months after increasing to the 140 kph advisory speed limit, deregulate the advisory speed limit for light vehicles and post it as unlimited speed. Light vehicles would not be suppressed by the repressive general speed limits we currently have. Traffic volumes and travel times would be reduced.
This new Super Highway system could be started within one year. Phasing it in over several months, a few sections at a time, would give drivers the chance to easily become comfortable with it. It would also give the MTO time to make minor adjustments where deemed necessary. Until the Super Highway program is place, there isn’t the demand to make major advancements in automotive technology. As a result of the new Super Highway program, the automotive manufacturing sector could itself be revolutionized, producing many new jobs for years to come. New design, engineering and manufacturing techniques could be developed as
advancements could be made in aerodynamics, engine, power train, emissions, fuel economy, electronics, comfort, suspension, handling and intelligent advanced driving systems for both light and heavy vehicles.
All businesses in Ontario would benefit from reduced travel time costs as a result of the Super Highway system. It would allow companies to do more business in less time and save you money in travel time costs. A lesser version of the Super Highway program would not allow Canada to be at the forefront of highway development in North America.
If you like the idea of developing true Super Highways in Ontario, contact your local member of provincial parliament. Let’s move, Ontario!!
Looks as if the original full version was posted here:
http://www.timminstoday.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3936&Itemid=1
Seems to be a condensed version of it printed in the Toronto Sun.
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/06/29/eliminate-speed-limits-on-our-highways
Last edited:
nfitz
Superstar
When the 401 was built the speed limit on it was 70 mph (about 112 km/hr). As far as I recall, the design speed back then was 80 mph (128 km/hr). 10 mph over the speed limit seems pretty sensible to me.
BurlOak
Senior Member
The design speed is 120km/h for most 400 series highways. The design speed is based on parameters that were derived over 50 years ago for things like braking, acceleration, night visibility, etc. The basis for the design speed has not changed since all cars now have disc brakes, radial tires, seat belts, etc. Thus a vehicle in the 1950's traveling at 120 was much less safe than 120 today. Also, the design speed was for the critical locations along a highway. This includes curves (horizontal and vertical), grades, acceleration and deceleration lanes. However, for a typical stretch of highway (especially away from Toronto where interchanges are about 10km apart), the highway is straight and the highway probably meets the requirements for a much higher design speed. We do not put in curves and hills just to bring the design speed down to 120.
The one exception is (was) the roadside environment. An errant vehicle may travel into the ditch and the design must adequately protect that vehicle as well. Many places, these ditches are flat enough due to the terain, and in other locations they are protect by guiderails. Most of these areas have been improved, but I am sure there are a few location where they are still not adequate - probably the 400 (up near hwy 89) where the small box beam median barrier is not adequate to prevent potential head-on collisions.
nfitz
Superstar
I believe it was 130 km/hr when I studied Civil Engineering. When did they lower it?
chrison
New Member
Thanks for posting that. We will be continuing the fight on many fronts so please support the cause. So far, the support keeps hovering around 88-90% despite repeated calls for the opponents to vote NO (ie. 100 km/h needs to stay).
We need to end this absurd situation that we currently have and institute a more reasonable limits of 120-130km/h and stop pretending that we actually believe the 400-series roads are deadly above 120 km/h but are indeed perfectly safe easily up to 150 km/h (which is confirmed by the REALITY - that's why many people drive at 120-140 km/h with pretty impressive safety results/stats).
If you would like to READ MORE and SUPPORT the cause, LIKE our facebook page at www.facebook.com/stop100
Have your voice and vote at www.stop100.ca/choose.html
Also, please read some FAQs about the topic on www.stop100.ca/faq.html