News   Feb 27, 2024
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News   Feb 27, 2024
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News   Feb 27, 2024
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Roads: Highway 401 Widening - Highway 8 to Highway 410 (MTO, U/C, Planned)

Um what? Other cities have much more functional and complete street grids. New York City for example.
Comparing NY City and the rural fringes of Halton does not really really work. Have a look at comparable parts of New Jersey and see how much grid there is. And is it really that important. I can think of scores of larger cities where grid networks do not exist. It seems to be a NAM thing, where early city planners had a clean sheet to work with.
 
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I’m always embarrassed when flying into Pearson when newcomers see the 401 and its sometimes eighteen plus lanes.

450px-Highway_401.png


To me it’s saying, we’re a stupid people who think making highways ever wider is the only solution for moving people.
 
I’m always embarrassed when flying into Pearson when newcomers see the 401 and its sometimes eighteen plus lanes.

To me it’s saying, we’re a stupid people who think making highways ever wider is the only solution for moving people.

I'm not proud of our 401, but I'm proud that Toronto discarded the plans for several other freeways - in total we don't have the same penetration of expressways as other cities. That one time plan might have killed our central city. Nor do we have the kinds of 10-lane grid arterials that one sees in, say, Florida.

Unfortunately, thanks to Lake Ontario we do not the option of a ring road around Toronto - so we have a 401 right across the center.

Still, the glass is pretty full, if we compare to how bad it could have been. We just need to bring our transit network back to its previous glory, and refrain from adding expressways we don't need.

- Paul
 
To me it’s saying, we’re a stupid people who think making highways ever wider is the only solution for moving people.
It's not wise judging past generations by contemporary standards. By the same token, what we think of as good planning today will have future generations shaking their heads in bemusement. This is such a common logical error going around these days.
 
I make no claims of wisdom. But there were plenty of contemporary best practice standards in the Western world in the 1970s-1990s when we decided to expand the 401 instead of focusing on transit and smart development.

Premier William Davis' decision to cancel the Spadina Expressway and make do with a subway was a watershed move in the right direction. And pretty avant garde for the day.

I wish that more recent regimes were as insightful *cough 413 cough*

- Paul
 
Premier William Davis' decision to cancel the Spadina Expressway and make do with a subway was a watershed move in the right direction.
The decision to cancel the Gardiner extension from Leslie to Morningside and replace it with subway- frequency GO ALRT service was even more ambitious!

After 50 years GO is slowly getting to something approaching that.
 
I’m always embarrassed when flying into Pearson when newcomers see the 401 and its sometimes eighteen plus lanes.

450px-Highway_401.png


To me it’s saying, we’re a stupid people who think making highways ever wider is the only solution for moving people.
To be fair, that stretch of the 401 is now 30+ years old and still doesn’t really experience regular congestion.
 
There will always be a need to service long distance driving. Highway building should be about solving long distance trips and commercial traffic trips that could not realistically have a transit / rail option to replace them, without creating this massive urban / suburban induced demand. One of the challenges we have with our freeways is that we create a lot of exits which then makes the highway a solution for a lot more local trips and in addition induces a lot more merges and lane changes leading to congestion points. Ensuring no exits are closer than 5km apart with a target of 20km apart that would immediately change the dynamics of the freeway and what it is used for.
 
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I’m always embarrassed when flying into Pearson when newcomers see the 401 and its sometimes eighteen plus lanes.

450px-Highway_401.png


To me it’s saying, we’re a stupid people who think making highways ever wider is the only solution for moving people.
Newcomers are far more embarrassed with the condition of TTC than 401. I am saying this as someone who was once a newcomer. You would be surprised to see the subway systems in the so called "third world" countries. TTC feels like seventh world after seeing them.

I don't hear any newcomer or anyone else besides this forum complaining about highways being too wide.
 
Newcomers are far more embarrassed with the condition of TTC than 401. I am saying this as someone who was once a newcomer. You would be surprised to see the subway systems in the so called "third world" countries. TTC feels like seventh world after seeing them.

I don't hear any newcomer or anyone else besides this forum complaining about highways being too wide.
if anything it wows them, as it shows them one of the most unique features of North America, our superhighways. That is of course until they have to drive on it.
 
if anything it wows them, as it shows them one of the most unique features of North America, our superhighways. That is of course until they have to drive on it.
Many of those people come from countries with same amount of traffic on highways that are a lot narrower. They are used to worse.
 
Oh!! lets bulldoze everything next to the straight roads and forget about the ppl who live there or structure older than you so you can drive straight. Give me a break.

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what about the Derry Road bypass for Meadowvale??

The thing is most those houses are just country homes that will mostly sell anyway when development comes. This looks a lot less significant than Meadowale Village.
 
I'd rather 1 giant highway compared to 3-4 smaller carving up the city into segments.

401 carries tourists, commuters, long/short haul truckers, logistics/ just in time manufacturing, long distance drivers, etc all through the city. 407 could in theory could be used for longer distance trips to completely bypass the city, but the tolls are insane for a lot of road-trippers.

For further expansion, widening the 401 should be done to fix the bottlenecks on the road only. HOV the innermost lane, 10 lane to Kitchener, rebuild 427-409 for collectors, get to collectors to 412, 10 lanes to 418, 8 lanes to 35/115 and then you'll have a more staggered lane add/drop through the Toronto metro. Look into high speed and regional rail service too for people wanting to get from city centre to city centre so they choose trains over driving.

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Speaking of the 18 lane stretch, @sonysnob recently posted a photo of that 18 lane stretch on the 401 thread at skyscraper page https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=209059&page=59

401_cl_346_east_Apr23_forum.jpg


 

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