nfitz
Superstar
So instead put it somewhere else, and cause people on the 407 and points south to dogleg on the supposedly bottlenecked 401?
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robmausser
Senior Member
The correct solution would be to have the 413 connect to the 407 a couple km before it merges with 401, and then have a section of the 413 continue west several km past the existing merge area and connect with the 401
Theres no magic bullet solution but at least you don't have all three roads merging at the same time, traffic volume is one issue but having many cars merge all at once is worse.
Staggered merging, its not rocket science.
nfitz
Superstar
That starts to sound like the mess that was created by having the 403 join the 401 at the 410, rather than the original plan to have it merge in at the 401/427 interchange.
darth_freeman
Active Member
413 and 407 WB will form a sub-collector westbound, while 401 WB remains on the express lanes, so I don't really see the issue...
nfitz
Superstar
Though I think that building the 407 overpass without leaving room for 401 collectors was a long-term mistake.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
This is actually a fairly good point - I see the 413 creating some major weaving issues on the 401 east of the 404/413 interchange. The 413 will merge with the 401 only a short distance before the 401 splits into the collector / express - I can see a lot of cars weaving over to make it into the 401 express lanes. Not a good design at all.
Ideally the express would run right to the 413 ramps before merging to a single carriageway under the 407 only. Traffic levels on the 401 through the interchange would be substantially lower on either side, as a very large volume of vehicles will be interchanging with the 413 itself.
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
Does the north-south portion of 407 make 413 less effective for making the journey from Bolton to Burlington? Ignoring traffic, the distance is longer than taking 410/403.
Also, does the lack of 413 joining with 407 and 401 in the east make it less effective as a bypass of bypass for the bypass? Or is it unthinkable for one to take that journey unless 401 and 407 were tolled to the same high level?
Also, does the lack of 413 joining with 407 and 401 in the east make it less effective as a bypass of bypass for the bypass? Or is it unthinkable for one to take that journey unless 401 and 407 were tolled to the same high level?
just east of the creek
Active Member
Well this stretch of the 401 is currently very slow with traffic. However you design it, there will be 413 volumes to add, somewhere into this junction. If the purpose of the 413 is to add additional bypass options, then why not not route it from the Tremaine junction in Milton, looping across the top of Milton, which is not really a loop, and then swing into the path laid out in the current planning. I would presume that the bulk of,the traffic headed for points east and west would stay on the 413 until Tremaine, or from Tremaine. And the traffic joining the 407 route would be most likely heading south to join the QEW, get off at Dundas etc.
I personally would hate this extension to Milton for a variety of reasons not related to driving the highway. But if the alternative becomes (one day) trying to build another ‘413’ through more of the escarpment, then that would be a worse outcome.
And I still believe that throughout the gta’s system of highways, dynamic tolling and congestion charges in certain areas should also be part of the effort to rein in the car culture exemplified by the Doug ford government.
Steve X
Senior Member
The 413 could be design secretly to aid Ford's buddies to get to where their business needs to go.
They really need to hush something out on the 407 for the section between the 403 and 401 to allow a free drive from the QEW to the 413 if they really want to reroute traffic from Burlington to the 400 north.
They really need to hush something out on the 407 for the section between the 403 and 401 to allow a free drive from the QEW to the 413 if they really want to reroute traffic from Burlington to the 400 north.
afransen
Senior Member
It's not about time savings. It's about realizing development potential.
Bojaxs
Active Member
Yes, as an Oakville resident this is my biggest gripe with the 413. The quickest & easiest route to access the 413 would be through the 407. But a lot of us don't want to pay the toll. So drivers will continue to access the 413 by taking Trafalgar Rd and Winston Churchill Blvd to the 401.
urbancog
Active Member
Back when the GTA-West highway was targeted at moving vehicles between Guelph and Hwy 400 (2007 - 2010), the regions of Peel and Halton still needed a way to get the traffic from their expanded urban areas down to the 401 and commissioned HDR to produce the Halton Peel Boundary Area Transportation Study. This proposed a freeway from Mayfield Rd to the 401/407 junction and an East-West connector to improve connection between Brampton and Georgetown. So there would be a major highway connecting at 401/407 even if Douggie hadn't taken over the route for the revised 413.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I doubt that would have survived without Ford given Brampton's direction from the Heritage Heights Secondary Plan.
Brampton had been pushing to ditch the municipal freeway Idea that Peel and Halton Regions were pushing in favour of an 8-10 lane at-grade boulevard.
But yes - if the 413 doesn't happen, there will remain a need for a significant vehicle corridor roughly on that route.
Brampton had been pushing to ditch the municipal freeway Idea that Peel and Halton Regions were pushing in favour of an 8-10 lane at-grade boulevard.
But yes - if the 413 doesn't happen, there will remain a need for a significant vehicle corridor roughly on that route.
afransen
Senior Member
Honestly, the boulevard idea was pretty silly. It would have been a heavily trafficked truck route, and no one would be sitting on a patio sipping their espresso a few meters for a conga line of class 8 trucks belching fumes to get back up to speed.
It's okay to create streets where people want to be/as places. But they can't serve 'movement' roles. That is what roads are for. A 10 lane street is just stupidity. The worst stroad that ever stroaded.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
100% agree. I'm a big fan of freeways - less so of stroads.
The dutch model is to try to shift as much car traffic to exclusive roads like freeways and off local streets, which can be designed to encourage other modes.
It's a big reason the 413 is important to me - it can help shift traffic off of arterials within Brampton, allowing them to be smaller, more people-focused spaces. You can't make Mississauga Road somewhere people want to be if it needs to be 6-8 lanes to get all the traffic from north Brampton down to the 401. Nobody likes driving on congested local streets. Provide the alternatives, then change the local streets to be people friendly.