Roads: Gardiner Expressway

[Jonny5]

And I thought I was crazy for being the only one that thinks this. Access to the waterfront along the western portions of the Gardiner is far worse than through the core. For all the talk about it being "a barrier" at least you can cross under the Gardiner downtown.

I'm glad more people are thinking this barrier meme through.
Downtown; The Gardiner, Lakeshore, the rail corridor and the condos must be the only barriers that tens of thousands pass through without thinking about them every day.
Who is even walking to the Harbourfront to be confronted by these supposed barriers? Surely only people who live right there and know the access points inside and out.
Anyone who is not local is almost certainly arriving by TTC or car and driving or being driven under them in seconds.
With the new teamways, Union Stn exit at Maple Leaf Square, changes to pedestrian signals and the tunnel under Simcoe Street, anyone who wants to walk has lots of options for a comfortable stroll.

So, who is it that is supposedly wanting to get to the Harbourfront, but can't because of the "barriers"?
If there was just a field from Front St to Queen's Quay, would all of Ashbridge's Bay's visitors relocate to HTO?
I'm pretty confident that everyone who wants to go to the Harbourfront right now is getting there just fine.

The barrier is, as noted, in the west end.

 

[W. K. Lis]

And I thought I was crazy for being the only one that thinks this. Access to the waterfront along the western portions of the Gardiner is far worse than through the core. For all the talk about it being "a barrier" at least you can cross under the Gardiner downtown.

The city has plans for changes to Lake Shore Blvd. between the Humber River and Exhibtion Place. See PDF at this link. They want to realign Lake Shore more northerly, even covering the parts of the Gardiner between Dowling and Dunn. They also want to recreate Sunnyside bridge, but for pedistrians and bicycles only, and wider.

Here's the link to the city's Western Waterfront Master Plan website.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

I might be crazy but I'd bridge the Gardiner from the Humber river across the Humber Bay to just West of the EX where it dips right down into a tunnel. Imagine a grand Lakeshore Blvd from the Humber right into the CBD and a new iconic bridge (hopefully) in the West end.

 

[Second_in_pie]

I'd respectfully disagree there. A highway bridge (or any bridge for that manner,) across Humber Bay would be terrible, and unneeded. If I could choose instead, I'd replicate Toronto Viaduct along there, with both the Highway and the rail line, along with the condo tower anchors being an anchor development for all of Humber Bay, which could very, very easily be turned into a dense, walkable neighborhood on it's own. I'll admit that the rail tracks are a big pain over there as well, and by just slightly raising both the Gardiner and rail line and integrating it into a pedestrian friendly environment, I think that Humber Bay would be able to flourish.

For better or for worse, the Gardiner's needed in the West, and I think you could actually do something with the Gardiner+rail tracks combo along the east side of the bay, just with the addition of waterfront attractions and easier access. Both going along the waterfront and the Gardiner itself, I actually see a lot of beauty between the two, and if the Gardiner was to go, the rail tracks definitely should not. Just adding better mobility and more attractions on the waterfront would be great, imo.

Further east from that point, I think that decking it over for that short while would be great, and something needs to be done for that nightmare-wasteland section around the Ex, whether it's to go underground or get rid of all the ads or something. At that point, the Gardiner's already below ground level, and it might be easy to just dig it across all the way to Bathurst or something, and deck that over. I'd say that past Spadina, it should disperse to Yonge, and then convert the above ground part of the Gardiner into an urban park and massive bike path, hopefully with seamless integration into surrounding buildings. That would be really, really cool.

 

[GraphicMatt]

I'm glad more people are thinking this barrier meme through.
Downtown; The Gardiner, Lakeshore, the rail corridor and the condos must be the only barriers that tens of thousands pass through without thinking about them every day.
Who is even walking to the Harbourfront to be confronted by these supposed barriers? Surely only people who live right there and know the access points inside and out.
Anyone who is not local is almost certainly arriving by TTC or car and driving or being driven under them in seconds.
With the new teamways, Union Stn exit at Maple Leaf Square, changes to pedestrian signals and the tunnel under Simcoe Street, anyone who wants to walk has lots of options for a comfortable stroll.

So, who is it that is supposedly wanting to get to the Harbourfront, but can't because of the "barriers"?
If there was just a field from Front St to Queen's Quay, would all of Ashbridge's Bay's visitors relocate to HTO?
I'm pretty confident that everyone who wants to go to the Harbourfront right now is getting there just fine.

The barrier is, as noted, in the west end.

What? No. Have you ever been east of Yonge street downtown? There's a whole thriving neighbourhood people near the St. Lawrence Market, King East & Corktown and a blank canvas of a waterfront just dying to be linked together and made awesome.

The West End certainly faces a significant barrier too, but it's more challenging as the highway is busier there and burial is the only option.

The central section is where the status quo is probably okay as is.

 

[cfloryan]

I might be crazy but I'd bridge the Gardiner from the Humber river across the Humber Bay to just West of the EX where it dips right down into a tunnel. Imagine a grand Lakeshore Blvd from the Humber right into the CBD and a new iconic bridge (hopefully) in the West end.

So would I! If I didn't have to pay for it.

 

[Jonny5]

What? No. Have you ever been east of Yonge street downtown? There's a whole thriving neighbourhood people near the St. Lawrence Market, King East & Corktown and a blank canvas of a waterfront just dying to be linked together and made awesome.

The West End certainly faces a significant barrier too, but it's more challenging as the highway is busier there and burial is the only option.

The central section is where the status quo is probably okay as is.

Well I should have been more clear that I was mostly referring to the Yonge to Bathurst section.
I excluded the east of Yonge side as there really isn't anything on the other side of the barrier there yet, but from what I've seen the many waterfront plans include a lot of work to stitch both sides together there better than anywhere else, especially through the Sherbourne Park.

 

[nfitz]

I excluded the east of Yonge side as there really isn't anything on the other side of the barrier there yet...

There's that big new building that's been going up somewhere near Jarvis ... isn't that a college? Sorry for the lack of details, I've only seen it from the Gardiner ... haven't driven along Queen's Quay for a while ...

 

[Jonny5]

There's that big new building that's been going up somewhere near Jarvis ... isn't that a college? Sorry for the lack of details, I've only seen it from the Gardiner ... haven't driven along Queen's Quay for a while ...

The building you are probably thinking of is Corus Quay, where Corus (the media company) will move it's headquarters.
I suspect it will be mostly housing commuters working 9-5 type jobs, but the radio stations they own in Toronto are moving there and they sometimes have public events in the evenings. This building will give a better venue for that.


George Brown College's new campus will be between Sherbourne and Jarvis, but won't be finished until late next year.

 

[MetroMan]

Gardiner Expressway: ‘Significant hazard to public safety’ found by outside inspectors

Just as predicted, the Gardiner is going to keep costing us more and more to keep up. At $490M in 2006, plans to tear down the Gardiner E from Spadina are looking like an absolute bargain as the annual cost of keeping it up more than doubles to $35M per year.

This is now a public health issue and we can't ignore it anymore. Anybody know where the plan to demolish E of Jarvis is at? I know the environmental assessment was commissioned but expected that it would end up in Rob Ford's wastebin because it proposes demolishing car infrastructure.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

MM:

Less public health but public safety. Anyways, the plan to demolish E of Jarvis has been in deep freeze, but it would seem that this is becoming an issue (not to mention legal liability) that they can't afford not to deal with. They really have to look at rebuilding at expressway one way or another.

AoD

 

[MetroMan]

An engineer at IBI group estimates that it would cost upwards of $500M to rebuild the failing parts of the elevated section to make it safe, probably for about the next 20 to 30 years. Ultimately, it needs to be rebuilt completely. A temporary solution is netting but that too will not come cheap for the full elevated Gardinger because it would need to be maintained and replaced regularly. We're facing significant mandatory spending on the Gardiner so hopefully council can come together on this and do something for the long term instead of throwing money into a black hole at the problem.

In my opinion, they need to move fast on implementing the removal of the section from Jarvis to the DVP. The environmental assessment is done and it'll cost in the ballpark of $200M to take it down and build a surface road along the rail corridor to the DVP. Then make it a WaterfrontTO priority to build a new pedestrian friendly Lakeshore blvd in preparation for removing the next segment and ending the Gardiner at Spadina.

Whatever council decides to do with this, the Gardiner will either become a money pit until a future council in 20 years is forced to take it down without being prepared for the traffic mess or this council can decide to start getting Toronto ready for living without a Gardiner expressway downtown.

 

[BMO]

An engineer at IBI group estimates that it would cost upwards of $500M to rebuild the failing parts of the elevated section to make it safe, probably for about the next 20 to 30 years. Ultimately, it needs to be rebuilt completely. A temporary solution is netting but that too will not come cheap for the full elevated Gardinger because it would need to be maintained and replaced regularly. We're facing significant mandatory spending on the Gardiner so hopefully council can come together on this and do something for the long term instead of throwing money into a black hole at the problem.

In my opinion, they need to move fast on implementing the removal of the section from Jarvis to the DVP. The environmental assessment is done and it'll cost in the ballpark of $200M to take it down and build a surface road along the rail corridor to the DVP. Then make it a WaterfrontTO priority to build a new pedestrian friendly Lakeshore blvd in preparation for removing the next segment and ending the Gardiner at Spadina.

Whatever council decides to do with this, the Gardiner will either become a money pit until a future council in 20 years is forced to take it down without being prepared for the traffic mess or this council can decide to start getting Toronto ready for living without a Gardiner expressway downtown.

Why don't they just tear it down and tunnel it under downtown? Then charge a toll to pay it off. This is what the Federal government is doing with the new Detroit bridge crossing. Allows the city to pay it off, and also reduces traffic on the gardiner, not to mention an ultimately better public domain above on the open land, as well as faster commutes for those people that DO pay to use the new buried gardiner. It could even act as a catalyst for accepting road tolls in the region. I bet 90% of people would be fine with paying a toll on the gardiner if it was buried and provided them a better service. While they're at it, they could even add segregated Bike lanes on the sides of the tunnel to provide an all-year cycling highway that wouldn't be tolled and would provide protection from the elements.

 

[TOareaFan]

Why don't they just tear it down and tunnel it under downtown? Then charge a toll to pay it off. This is what the Federal government is doing with the new Detroit bridge crossing. Allows the city to pay it off, and also reduces traffic on the gardiner, not to mention an ultimately better public domain above on the open land, as well as faster commutes for those people that DO pay to use the new buried gardiner. It could even act as a catalyst for accepting road tolls in the region. I bet 90% of people would be fine with paying a toll on the gardiner if it was buried and provided them a better service. While they're at it, they could even add segregated Bike lanes on the sides of the tunnel to provide an all-year cycling highway that wouldn't be tolled and would provide protection from the elements.

As a frequent driver on the Gardiner I would reserve my voting yes on those tolls until I got answers to:

1. How would that tunelled road give me a better service?

2. What are the viable alternatives to paying those tolls.

 

[pman]

MM:

Less public health but public safety. Anyways, the plan to demolish E of Jarvis has been in deep freeze, but it would seem that this is becoming an issue (not to mention legal liability) that they can't afford not to deal with. They really have to look at rebuilding at expressway one way or another.

AoD

They don't necessarily have to rebuild. Given the emerging discussion about revenue tools for transit expansion, perhaps the Gardiner could simply be demolished from Jarvis to the DVP and the DVP could end at the Adelaide/Richmond ramps. Traffic coming downtown could be reduced by a combination of parking space levies and road tolls, and Lakeshore could be left as is. Aside from the maintenance cost savings, I would imagine property taxes from the land freed up for development would make the whole package fiscally more responsible than locking the central city into another century of 1950's-style domination by suburban drivers.