News   Feb 23, 2024
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Roads: Gardiner Expressway

Real question. Could the province not just sell the DVP and the Gardiner to Toll road owners to make a quick buck?
Given the experience of leasing the 407, that would be widely unpopular across the entire voting base. If it is to be tolled, I think most would prefer the toll revenue to accrue to government.
 
Don't forget the Herb Grey Parkway and the Gordie Howe Bridge.
Though the E.C. Row definitely needs an upgrade!! Plus a connection to the 401 via the Lauzon Ex. would make it a better used road.

(Windsor is my home town).
Agreed, between the LG/Stellantis Battery Plant, Herb Gray Parkway, Gordie Howe Bridge, the HWY 3 Twinning to Leamington, and the massive Hydro One Transmission upgrade, Windsor can’t really complain about not being heard by the province/feds.

I do think that the EC Row should still be uploaded though, and fully grade separated/extended out to Patillo road in Tecumseh. The County is the fastest growing part of Windsor-Essex and there is an increasing number of commuters that use the EC Row but don’t pay for it. Windsor was also still technically recovering financially from the 2008 recession before COVID hit, so removing the freeway from the equation would help direct more money to long-stalled municipal projects that have needed to happen for years.
 
Given the experience of leasing the 407, that would be widely unpopular across the entire voting base. If it is to be tolled, I think most would prefer the toll revenue to accrue to government.
As someone who uses the 407 regularly I agree with the money going to the government. I guess I just don’t trust this government not to suddenly be sellers or tollers.
 
The Leslie on-ramps were torn down 30 years ago, I think you mean the Logan on-ramps?
Lesile was torn down in 2001.

I brought up Lesile because for all we know, Doug wants to extend the Gardiner. But I highly doubt that.
The point I was trying to make was, I doubt Ford will make any changes to the already voted on hybrid option by the city. It will cost more than it's worth.

Unless he wants more Scarborough votes and expropriate property to extend the Gardiner east. Politically I don't think it will hurt him. He'll expropriate land in the beaches ( they'll never vote Ford anyways) while benefiting those in Scarborough and Pickering with a direct highway into downtown Toronto, and an alternative to the 401.
I'm not sure how much land the city put aside for the Scarborough expressway, and how much of those lands have been sold off. But I've seen some of it still vacant. Really the city can use it to build affordable housing.
 
Look for the Gardiner to be leased to Therme for 99 years. It will be renamed the Therme Expressway. All the downtown exit and entrance ramps will be closed except for one exit that leads directly to the parking lot of the new Therme Spa.
 
Lesile was torn down in 2001.

I brought up Lesile because for all we know, Doug wants to extend the Gardiner. But I highly doubt that.
The point I was trying to make was, I doubt Ford will make any changes to the already voted on hybrid option by the city. It will cost more than it's worth.

Unless he wants more Scarborough votes and expropriate property to extend the Gardiner east. Politically I don't think it will hurt him. He'll expropriate land in the beaches ( they'll never vote Ford anyways) while benefiting those in Scarborough and Pickering with a direct highway into downtown Toronto, and an alternative to the 401.
I'm not sure how much land the city put aside for the Scarborough expressway, and how much of those lands have been sold off. But I've seen some of it still vacant. Really the city can use it to build affordable housing.
I think that the possibility of a Scarborough Ex. 2.0 are less than 0! The cost of expropriation would be so astronomical as to make it a fantasy. Like the extension of The Allen south it just can’t happen.
 
Lesile was torn down in 2001.

I brought up Lesile because for all we know, Doug wants to extend the Gardiner. But I highly doubt that.
The point I was trying to make was, I doubt Ford will make any changes to the already voted on hybrid option by the city. It will cost more than it's worth.

Unless he wants more Scarborough votes and expropriate property to extend the Gardiner east. Politically I don't think it will hurt him. He'll expropriate land in the beaches ( they'll never vote Ford anyways) while benefiting those in Scarborough and Pickering with a direct highway into downtown Toronto, and an alternative to the 401.
I'm not sure how much land the city put aside for the Scarborough expressway, and how much of those lands have been sold off. But I've seen some of it still vacant. Really the city can use it to build affordable housing.

For the history of the Scarborough Expressway see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancelled_expressways_in_Toronto#Scarborough_Expressway

The highway was first conceived as part of planning studies in the 1940s, and detailed planning for the new freeway began in 1967. Construction was expected to begin after completion of the Spadina Expressway. Early plans had the road travelling beside the CN route in the southern parts of the then Borough of Scarborough, but later plans were to have the highway continue as an eastern extension of the Gardiner Expressway along the shores of Lake Ontario running along the base of the Scarborough Bluffs, connecting with Highway 401 by incorporating the existing Ontario Highway 2A, a short stub freeway segment that was part of the original 401 alignment.

The original 1967 proposal would have seen 1,200 homes demolished for the expressway. After fierce opposition to this plan, the City of Toronto redesigned the route in 1973. It was moved entirely to within the Lakeshore East CN/GO railway corridor, commencing from the Don Valley Parkway/Gardiner Expressway interchange and would be depressed in a deep ditch. The number of homes to be demolished was reduced to 706. However, this did not pacify east Toronto residents who continued to fight the plan. The City shelved the expressway in 1974.
Looks like part of the "Lakeshore East CN/GO railway corridor" route for the Scarborough Expressway has been taken over by the Ontario Line.
 
I went into this thread expecting people to be ecstatic that Toronto no longer has to maintain this highway, but it's all just doom and gloom.
Other than the possibility of the province switching from the selection of Gardiner rebuild hybrid option 1 from hybrid option 3, I think the province taking over the Don Valley expressway and Gardiner is a winning situation. If the province tolls or doesn't toll, it would be the difference between an improvement the city is unwilling to make and status quo. Unlike the 407 which was meant to be a bypass so thru-traffic would have a way to avoid Toronto , the Gardiner is for internal to the GTA traffic and really that is the traffic that most needs the incentives to move to other modes. Maybe the province could trade 407ETR, for every year they take off the 407 lease they can have 2 years of Gardiner/DVP lease.
 

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