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Roads: Gardiner Expressway

The problem isn't funding per se - but the fact that no one wanted to be seen as the ones having to raise taxes for it. Toronto or Mississauga could have done it on their own if they should chose to raise taxes (however skewed) through property, but chose not to as well. There is enough guilt to go around that nobody comes out looking like a saint.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
The problem isn't funding per se - but the fact that no one wanted to be seen as the ones having to raise taxes for it. Toronto or Mississauga could have done it on their own if they should chose to raise taxes (however skewed) through property, but chose not to as well. There is enough guilt to go around that nobody comes out looking like a saint.

AoD
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Well, when you are handcuffed to using property tax as your only source of revenue, of course no municipality was willing to go at it alone. Municipalities have been asking for more revenue generating powers for years, and so far, only Toronto has received a special exemption to the rule. (Though the extra powers have been squandered under the past 2 administrations)
 
Tuscani01 said:
Well, when you are handcuffed to using property tax as your only source of revenue, of course no municipality was willing to go at it alone. Municipalities have been asking for more revenue generating powers for years, and so far, only Toronto has received a special exemption to the rule. (Though the extra powers have been squandered under the past 2 administrations)
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Well, even when you didn't get handcuffed the result is mixed, as you have indicated. The debate over transit revenue sources is another.

There is only one way out of the doldrums - refusal to expand service delivery to anyone/anywhere refusing to pay up

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Well, even when you didn't get handcuffed the result is mixed, as you have indicated. The debate over transit revenue sources is another.

AoD
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Though we have seen good results from having the handcuffs removed. The Land Transfer Tax alone has paid off a significant portion of the cost of the new streetcars. Our politicians just need to do a much better job of linking revenue to actual results.

Actually, the city and TTC should be posting ads in the new streetcars saying that these new vehicles are operating thanks to revenue from the LTT. It would go a long way towards selling the idea of more fees/taxes to residents when they can see what these taxes/fees are doing. That being said, none of these revenue tools have the potential to cover the full cost of the much larger capital projects that the city is planning. These projects rely on funding from upper levels of government. The property tax was never intended to fund significant projects like these.
 
If the Gardiner is to be buried, it should be done so all the way to the Humber River, rather than stopping at Jameson. It would also be amazing if Lakeshore and the Queensway could be buried as well. This would allow us to have a properly connected city to the waterfront (though the rail corridor would still be an issue). Imagine High Park seamlessly connecting to the lake.

As for tunneling the Gardiner; why can't it be done under the harbour and along the shore heading west? Wouldn't that be much cheaper and quicker than demolishing the existing structure, then building a tunnel in the same path? An under water tunnel would also allow for larger capacity than the current footprint.
 
Armour said:
If the Gardiner is to be buried, it should be done so all the way to the Humber River, rather than stopping at Jameson. It would also be amazing if Lakeshore and the Queensway could be buried as well. This would allow us to have a properly connected city to the waterfront (though the rail corridor would still be an issue). Imagine High Park seamlessly connecting to the lake.
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So about 10 km instead of 6.5 km. So about 10 billion instead of 6 billion (if those numbers can be believed.

So does such a project really have a $4 billion value?
 
Armour said:
This would allow us to have a properly connected city to the waterfront (though the rail corridor would still be an issue). Imagine High Park seamlessly connecting to the lake.
.
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There is no reason why the railroad can't be buried too.
 
Automation Gallery said:
Nah, not with our dirty diesel trains, Maybe one day if they get electrified
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Diesel trains run in tunnels all the time. The CPR's Mount Macdonald Tunnel tunnel in BC is almost 15km long. You just need proper ventilation. Putting a station in a tunnel is a bit more challenging.

I think the biggest problem with the buried railway line idea is that when you put an existing railway line into a tunnel within the same right-of-way is you need to shut the line down for a number of years in do all the work. You can't generally operate a TBM under an active railway line and obviously you can't do cut-and-cover when the railway line is on top of a 10m high embankment. The only way to do it without shutting everything down for a number of years is to built the tunnel in a completely different right-of-way. For example, if you wanted to do cut-and-cover you could close the north half of Lakeshore from the Humber to either Jamison or Bathhurst and built the tunnel there, then put Lakeshore back over top of it when done. That would eventually free up the existing railway right-of-way land for a new road or new development.
 
howl said:
I think the biggest problem with the buried railway line idea is that when you put an existing railway line into a tunnel within the same right-of-way is you need to shut the line down for a number of years in do all the work. You can't generally operate a TBM under an active railway line and obviously you can't do cut-and-cover when the railway line is on top of a 10m high embankment. The only way to do it without shutting everything down for a number of years is to built the tunnel in a completely different right-of-way. For example, if you wanted to do cut-and-cover you could close the north half of Lakeshore from the Humber to either Jamison or Bathhurst and built the tunnel there, then put Lakeshore back over top of it when done. That would eventually free up the existing railway right-of-way land for a new road or new development.
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We managed to trench parts of the Georgetown line for the UPX near Weston, as well as through Liberty Village, all while trains continued to operate. I don't see why the same approach can't be used for the rest of the rail corridor. For the tighter Union Corridor, we can always have two temporary "Union" stations at each side of the existing Union, where trains can stop while the central corridor is buried.

That being said, the cost would be ridiculous. I'd rather see money spent on new transit before we focus on projects like this.
 
Tuscani01 said:
We managed to trench parts of the Georgetown line for the UPX near Weston, as well as through Liberty Village, all while trains continued to operate. I don't see why the same approach can't be used for the rest of the rail corridor.
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Right .. it technically continued to operate, but not completely unimpeded. Don't forget that they cancelled mid-day service to facilitate that construction.
 
The railway right-of-way through Weston is substantially wider than the Lakeshore right-of-way. Historically it was actually two separate right-of-ways, one CNR (Brampton Subdivision) and the other CPR (MacTier Subdivision).
 
That the right of way is still divided between the GO Kitchener and CP corridors makes for some unfortunate compromises. For instance, Metrolinx is planning on building a pedestrian bridge at John Street in Weston. The bridge will span the GO corridor, but pedestrians will then walk down stairs to a gated level crossing for the CP corridor. (That rendering isn't the final architectural design but shows the basic idea of bridging just one corridor.) Also, for all the construction at Junction Road over the past 5 years, there's still a level railway crossing for CP trains at Junction Road.
 
Press release from WT:

$25 million gift to create new trail, connections and cultural spaces under Gardiner Expressway
The City of Toronto announces partnership with visionary philanthropists and Waterfront Toronto to reclaim unused space between Strachan and Spadina

November 17 2015 | Area: The Wider Waterfront Topic: design excellence, gardiner, parks & public spaces,
6682_view_east_at_strachan_gate_1_232_232_both_.jpg


Toronto, November 17, 2015 – Today, the City of Toronto, together with philanthropists Judy and Wil Matthews and Waterfront Toronto announced a $25 million partnership that will create a new public landscape beneath a section of the Gardiner Expressway. In making the announcement, Judy Matthews was joined by Mayor John Tory, Waterfront Toronto CEO John Campbell, Toronto City Councillors Joe Cressy (Ward 20) and Mike Layton (Ward 19) and Lai-King Hum, President of the CityPlace Residents Association.

The Matthews’ generous gift will fund the creation of more than four hectares (10 acres) of new public space and 1.75 kilometres of multi-use trail beneath the elevated expressway from just west of Strachan Avenue to Spadina Avenue. This unprecedented philanthropic partnership represents a new, collaborative model for building high-quality public spaces in Toronto.

The initiative, temporarily called Project: Under Gardiner, will transform the areas beneath the expressway into vibrant community spaces that will play host to a range of cultural programming – creating a new outdoor living room for the use of the 70,000 residents in nearby neighbourhoods and for visitors who use the many amenities and attractions in the area.

Project: Under Gardiner envisions a dynamic new public space that creates connections between some of Toronto's newest and most dense neighbourhoods, including Liberty Village, Niagara, Fort York Neighbourhood, CityPlace, Bathurst Quay and Wellington Place. The project will knit these communities together with innovative programmable spaces that will showcase Toronto's unique cultural and related offerings – music, food, theatre, visual arts, education and civics, dance, sports and recreation. These spaces have been conceived as “rooms” that are defined by the series of concrete post-and-beam structural elements supporting the Gardiner. Up to 55 civic rooms can be fashioned to house a wide variety of year-round programming.

The trail will create a new off-street route for walking and cycling that touches some of the City’s densest and most walkable urban neighbourhoods. Project: Under Gardiner will create a new east-west cultural and amenity corridor that helps to connect attractions across the waterfront, including Molson Amphitheatre, BMO Field, Historic Fort York, Toronto Music Garden and the revitalized Queens Quay, Harbourfront Centre, the CN Tower, Rogers Centre, Toronto Railway Museum, Ripley’s Aquarium, the Air Canada Centre and the Toronto Islands via the Jack Layton Ferry Terminal.

Renowned city planner and urban designer Ken Greenberg heads the design team, working with Adam Nicklin and Marc Ryan of PUBLIC WORK, a leading urban design and landscape architecture studio. Together, they have established a framework for the project that will use key landmarks as anchors – Historic Fort York and its stunning new Visitor Centre, the new Fort York Library, and nearby green spaces such as June Callwood Park, Coronation Park, Garrison Common and the Toronto Music Garden on Queens Quay.

Waterfront Toronto will manage and build the project on behalf of the City, and the Matthews' gift will leverage the City's existing investment in rehabilitating and maintaining the Gardiner Expressway.

Waterfront Toronto will also lead public engagement and consultation for Project: Under Gardiner, inviting Toronto residents to participate in the design process and development of the programming vision. Through social media, the project website, a drop-in space and public meetings, Torontonians will be able to provide their feedback, suggestions and ideas. Further details on public consultation and engagement will soon be shared.

Public engagement on this project will begin with Reclaim the Name, a campaign that will ask members of the public to help give the space a name that is uniquely Torontonian. The campaign will begin in December.

This new collaborative public space requires a new model for ongoing operations and maintenance. The Matthews have asked the City and Waterfront Toronto to develop a self-sufficient funding model that ensures this new space has the enhanced operation and maintenance service levels needed to support vibrant community programming and activities.

Construction is set to start in the summer of 2016, with the initial phase of the project aiming for completion in 2017.

For more information, please visit undergardiner.com, and to view a short trailer that captures the spirit of the Project: Under Gardiner vision, please visit YouTube or tiny.cc/undergardiner.

http://www.waterfrontoronto.ca/1999...and_cultural_spaces_under_gardiner_expressway

- - -

Project thread for postings on this:

http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...udy-wil-matthews-public-work-greenberg.24574/

AoD
 
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