Roads: Gardiner Expressway

[pw20]

One impediment at a time, let's start with the one that's a safety hazard and bleeds money first. Besides the underpasses under the railway tracks can be easily and cheaply be spruced up.

I don't disagree one impediment at a time... but the renderings were shown assume that once the Gardiner is torn down we'll have this marveous LakeShore blvd Shangri La (check out Christopher Hume's horrid video calling it our potential "champ elysses"). Removing the Gardiner does remove one impediment that costs money and is becoming a safety hazard, BUT it also is not the only impediment AND it also does tear apart a complete traffic conduit. Like it or not connectivity for any transit mechanism (be it mass transit or automobile) is imperative for its functionality.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

So we're looking at 5 minute extra travel time for ~3% of downtown bound commuters in 2031 if demolish Gardiner East. In exchange we get a vastly superior public realm for our city along with new development potential.

That's all I need to hear. Tear it down.

 

[nfitz]

Let me rephrase, you can't punish drivers until there is a better solution in place. And Toronto has a long way to go until that's a reality.

That would defer getting rid of the traffic for ever.

There's little excuse for much of the traffic in downtown Toronto in the rush hour. Take away the capacity now, and everything will adjust. Get cars off some of the streets completly, and then streetcars can move faster, and become more attractive.

 

[innsertnamehere]

cars will always, and I mean always, be the best option for many people. Even in transit heavens such as Europe the car is still a dominating form of transportation. That is no excuse to tear down the highway. as you can see in the PDF, ripping it down decreases the capacity for people to enter the core by roughly 1%. This lost capacity can easily be replaced in triplicate simply by adding 1 additional GO trip to every line.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Presentation from Waterfront Toronto press conference is online:
http://www.gardinereast.ca/sites/de...N02 - presentation - MEDIA - 2014 02 05_1.pdf

A few new artist's impressions for the "Remove" option:

I'll be the one to play the pick on the artist's rendering games. Just where along the Gardiner/Lakshore would you have this kind of view of the CN Tower? From the west there would have to be the Rogers Centre nearby. From the east would it not be obscured by the Southcore buildings?

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

It is not punishing drivers. Most of those drivers shouldn't be driving there and causing all the noise and congestion, not to say loss of land value in the first place. How many of those cars are just passing by, without even entering downtown Toronto? Isn't it a stupid idea to allow thousands of cars to just pass through the downtown of a major city from one suburb to another

Those who do end up downtown, well, there is the Go train specifically for that purpose if it is just for work, and other transit options as well. Yes, it takes longer, but that's the price you pay for living too far away from some where you need to go frequently.

I thought the studies showed the vast majority of, if not all of the trips originate and/or terminate in the downtown core. There is a very small percentage who drive the whole length of the Gardiner from the DVP to the QEW/427.

I'd support tools such as tolls or congestion charges only if there were viable alternatives, and at the moment GO is not a viable alternative. We'd need all day bi-directional service on all GO lines for it to become a true alternative to the Gardiner

 

[nfitz]

So we're looking at 5 minute extra travel time for ~3% of downtown bound commuters in 2031 if demolish Gardiner East. In exchange we get a vastly superior public realm for our city along with new development potential.

That's all I need to hear. Tear it down.

Hang on. None of those 4 routes would actually use the piece of the Gardiner being removed. Traffic from Kipling would get off the Gardiner at Bay or York, before Jarvis. And the other 3 would come in on the DVP/Eastern/Front/Wellington/Bay

What about C to E, or A, B, C, E to a point south of the tracks. That's the test.

 

[Tuscani01]

So we're looking at 5 minute extra travel time for ~3% of downtown bound commuters in 2031 if demolish Gardiner East. In exchange we get a vastly superior public realm for our city along with new development potential.

That's all I need to hear. Tear it down.

Thats inbound. I'd like to see what removal does to outbound. I do the drive monday to friday during rush hour. Going to work is anywhere from 25 minutes to 30 minutes, and thats from Liberty Village to Don Mills/Eglinton. Going home, it is only 15 minutes to the Yonge/Bay ramp. Im usually home in Liberty Village in 30 minutes, from Don Mills/Eglinton.

There is currently 0 congestion during this trip. If removing the Gardiner is going to create congestion in the opposite direction, which it likely will, I don't see the option as a benefit at all.

Basically, I'd rather see a road under capacity, than one at or over capacity. I'd support tolls on the current Gardiner, or even tolls that could eventually go to replacing the Gardiner with the option that was shown in the report.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I'll be the one to play the pick on the artist's rendering games. Just where along the Gardiner/Lakshore would you have this kind of view of the CN Tower? From the west there would have to be the Rogers Centre nearby. From the east would it not be obscured by the Southcore buildings?

As we approach Yonge Street the view becomes obstructed.

Further east the sight lines are much clearer.

 

[innsertnamehere]

E is being tested as traffic would back up onto the part that wasn't torn down.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I'll be the one to play the pick on the artist's rendering games. Just where along the Gardiner/Lakshore would you have this kind of view of the CN Tower? From the west there would have to be the Rogers Centre nearby. From the east would it not be obscured by the Southcore buildings?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Hang on. None of those 4 routes would actually use the piece of the Gardiner being removed. Traffic from Kipling would get off the Gardiner at Bay or York, before Jarvis. And the other 3 would come in on the DVP/Eastern/Front/Wellington/Bay

What about C to E, or A, B, C, E to a point south of the tracks. That's the test.

Good point. Should we assume that they had them exit off Yonge/Bay/York? It would be bizarre for them to not to include any travel times running through the study area.

Regardless the traffic impact on removing the Gardiner does appear to be rather small.

 

[Canadian Chocho]

Im kinda fond of the Replace option.

 

[FNTS]

I'll be the one to play the pick on the artist's rendering games. Just where along the Gardiner/Lakshore would you have this kind of view of the CN Tower? From the west there would have to be the Rogers Centre nearby. From the east would it not be obscured by the Southcore buildings?

It looks pretty accurate to me (minus the fancy buildings not yet built):

 

[TheTigerMaster]

...

Thanks for whipping out your model.

I'd expect 18 Yonge Street to block the views of the CN Tower. It appears that way on Street View.

However whoever rendered it did take 18 Yonge into account. You can see it on the far west side of the image. If the render is correct, I suspect that it would be unobstructed on the north side of the street but not on the south side.