Road Safety & Vision Zero Plan

[crs1026]

^I haven't come across any police speed traps, but I have seen the 20 km/h signs along the Humber River trails, which are mixed pedestrian-bike trails and which do have congestion problems.

I don't know that where the 20 km/h thing came from, but there is a problem with yellow-jersey-wannabe elitist speedsters on these trails. I suspect there have been complaints about these jerks.

- Paul

 

[Northern Light]

^I haven't come across any police speed traps, but I have seen the 20 km/h signs along the Humber River trails, which are mixed pedestrian-bike trails and which do have congestion problems.

I don't know that where the 20 km/h thing came from, but there is a problem with yellow-jersey-wannabe elitist speedsters on these trails. I suspect there have been complaints about these jerks.

- Paul

I can't say who picked the number originally; but almost all bike trails built during the Metro Parks era had the 20km/ph signage.

Its been up since at least the early 80s but probably before.

 

[Northern Light]

Someone can feel free to chip in here...........because my googling skills may be off tonight.,

My first impulse was that the speed signs on bike paths are actually advisory rather than binding.

So I went looking to see if that was true.

The speed on park paths is regulated under a City of Toronto By--Law.

608-32

When you look under penalties though, it references that violation of this rule, by an operator of a motorized vehicle is regulated under the Highway Traffic Act.

I can't find a reference to a set fine for a cyclist violating those rules.

I'm sure its there somewhere...............

There is a suggestion the set fine was approved June 2012.

But I can't track the number.

I'm just curious.

 

[lenaitch]

Someone can feel free to chip in here...........because my googling skills may be off tonight.,

My first impulse was that the speed signs on bike paths are actually advisory rather than binding.

So I went looking to see if that was true.

The speed on park paths is regulated under a City of Toronto By--Law.

608-32

When you look under penalties though, it references that violation of this rule, by an operator of a motorized vehicle is regulated under the Highway Traffic Act.

I can't find a reference to a set fine for a cyclist violating those rules.​

I'm sure its there somewhere...............

There is a suggesting the set fine was approved June 2012.

But I can't track the number.

I'm just curious.

I'm not really into bylaw structuring, but I think the paragraph you are referring to has to be read in conjunction with the one above it:

A. Any person who contravenes any of the provisions of this chapter, other than § 608-32 resulting from the operation of a motor vehicle, is guilty of an offence or is liable to an administrative penalty.​

​

B. Any person who contravenes the provision contained in § 608-32 of this chapter, resulting from the operation of a motor vehicle, is guilty of an offence under the Highway Traffic Act.​

​

Meaning, in this discussion, if you speed in a motor vehicle (as defined), you get a provincial offences notice charging you with an offence under the HTA; otherwise (i.e. a bicycle), you get a 'bylaw ticket', assuming with an out-of-court administrative penalty option.

 

[crs1026]

^I'm neither a lawyer nor a municipal bylaw expert, but I would guess that the premise is that 20 km/h is considered a "speed limit" under the HTA. So, if you are clocked at 36 km/h on your bike on a Toronto bike path, you are 16 km/h over the speed limit, and the penalty is the same as if you were driving a car 16 km/h over the limit.

See HTA 128.2

(2) The council of a municipality may, for motor vehicles driven on a highway or portion of a highway under its jurisdiction, by by-law prescribe a rate of speed different from the rate set out in subsection (1) that is not greater than 100 kilometres per hour and may prescribe different rates of speed for different times of day. 2006, c. 32, Sched. D, s. 4 (3).

I wonder, however, if the signage on Toronto bike paths meets the legal standard for signage, because....Section 128.11

By-laws, regulations effective when posted

(11) No by-law passed under this section or regulation made under clause (7) (c) becomes effective until the highway, portion of the highway or designated area affected by the by-law or regulation, as the case may be, is signed in accordance with this Act and the regulations. 2017, c. 9, s. 4 (2).

- Paul

 

[Northern Light]

I'm not really into bylaw structuring, but I think the paragraph you are referring to has to be read in conjunction with the one above it:

A. Any person who contravenes any of the provisions of this chapter, other than § 608-32 resulting from the operation of a motor vehicle, is guilty of an offence or is liable to an administrative penalty.​

​

B. Any person who contravenes the provision contained in § 608-32 of this chapter, resulting from the operation of a motor vehicle, is guilty of an offence under the Highway Traffic Act.​

​

Meaning, in this discussion, if you speed in a motor vehicle (as defined), you get a provincial offences notice charging you with an offence under the HTA; otherwise (i.e. a bicycle), you get a 'bylaw ticket', assuming with an out-of-court administrative penalty option.

I agree with your interpretation.

But I can't find a reference to what the by-law fine is....

I'm assuming its different than the HTA fine. (but perhaps not).

 

[Northern Light]

^I'm neither a lawyer nor a municipal bylaw expert, but I would guess that the premise is that 20 km/h is considered a "speed limit" under the HTA. So, if you are clocked at 36 km/h on your bike on a Toronto bike path, you are 16 km/h over the speed limit, and the penalty is the same as if you were driving a car 16 km/h over the limit.

See HTA 128.2


I wonder, however, if the signage on Toronto bike paths meets the legal standard for signage, because....Section 128.11



- Paul

I saw that, the signage issue did not occur to me.

What did is the word 'motor vehicle'.

That is a discrete term at law from 'vehicle', so far as I know. ( again, I may stand to be corrected)

***

I searched the City website w/o luck.

I also searched the web broadly.

I also searched changes to set fines.

Nothing stood out to me as clearly applicable.

 

[crs1026]

^ Very interesting - the HTA section dealing with speed clearly states "motor vehicles", and both the HTA and the Municipal Code are clear that bicycles are "vehicles" but not "motor vehicles". I suppose one could argue that there is no speed restriction in the HTA for non-motor vehicles.

- Paul

 

[TossYourJacket]

I'm just confused how someone on a bike is supposed to know what speed they're going. Last I checked, they don't usually come with speedometers.

 

[lenaitch]

The HTA 'rates of speed' sections refer to "vehicle" and "highway" (both defined). Whether a bike path in a park is a 'highway" would be subject to interpretation or perhaps a court ruling already exists. However, 608-32 sets the speed limit "in a park", regardless of whether it is on a road, path or across the grass. The speed limit is also made applicable to "vehicles, motorized recreational vehicles, bicycles and personally powered devices".

Bylaw 608-50 empowers the General Manager "to post signage of permission, regulation, restriction, warning or prohibition with respect to uses of or activities in a park". I don't think the HTA section regarding signage applies; firstly because it speaks to 'motor vehicle' and secondly because the HTA definition of 'highway' refers to public routes of general passage (I'm pretty sure there is a court ruling on that but can't be bothered to research).

No clue what the set 'administrative penalty' would be for speeding-by-bicycle, because 608-50 specifically exempts it from the HTA set fine:

"Every person convicted of an offence under this chapter, other than an administrative penalty under §§ 608-27A, B, C, D, E.1, F or 608-30.1 or an offence under § 608-32, is liable to a fine as provided for in the Provincial Offences Act." ​

​

Perhaps it is buried in some other bicycle-related bylaw somewhere.

 

[PinkLucy]

I'm just confused how someone on a bike is supposed to know what speed they're going. Last I checked, they don't usually come with speedometers.

I ride with a bike computer

 

[crs1026]

^Something I discovered the hard way is that depending on how you google, you may be taken to an older version of the Municipal Code and your results may vary.

Section 608-29B makes it an offence to “endanger other users of the park while riding or operating a bicycle” - presumably this could be used to charge (as a Provincial Offense, and not a HTA offense) an aggressive rider who egregiously blasted through a crowded area, even without a speed reading.

I did ask a friend who uses the HTA daily, and is a hard core cyclist. He threw a couple of other HTA permutations at me eg whether the pathway has been designated a “public roadway”. He also commented that specific signage is a vital prerequisite to enforcement of things HTA.

The Provincial Offences Act seems to allow judges to impose a “set fine” for offenses under that act, but the precedents aren’t in the Act.

At the end of the day, one would conclude that any cyclist charged under the HTA ought to look carefully at which section was cited, and check the wording of that section to see if it applies to “motor vehicles” .

- Paul

 

[W. K. Lis]

^ Very interesting - the HTA section dealing with speed clearly states "motor vehicles", and both the HTA and the Municipal Code are clear that bicycles are "vehicles" but not "motor vehicles". I suppose one could argue that there is no speed restriction in the HTA for non-motor vehicles.

- Paul

Toronto homeowner ready to 'fight tooth and nail' against expropriation for Ontario Line

Metrolinx is reassuring dozens of Toronto homeowners after letters were sent out raising fears about expropriation to make way for the Ontario Line— a subway project proposed to run between Ontario Place and the Ontario Science Centre.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

An e-bike or e-scooter have "motors", so they could be charged for going over 20 km/h, but a bicycle is "powered" by a human (or gravity when you go downhill).

 

[lenaitch]

^Something I discovered the hard way is that depending on how you google, you may be taken to an older version of the Municipal Code and your results may vary.

Section 608-29B makes it an offence to “endanger other users of the park while riding or operating a bicycle” - presumably this could be used to charge (as a Provincial Offense, and not a HTA offense) an aggressive rider who egregiously blasted through a crowded area, even without a speed reading.

I did ask a friend who uses the HTA daily, and is a hard core cyclist. He threw a couple of other HTA permutations at me eg whether the pathway has been designated a “public roadway”. He also commented that specific signage is a vital prerequisite to enforcement of things HTA.

The Provincial Offences Act seems to allow judges to impose a “set fine” for offenses under that act, but the precedents aren’t in the Act.

At the end of the day, one would conclude that any cyclist charged under the HTA ought to look carefully at which section was cited, and check the wording of that section to see if it applies to “motor vehicles” .

- Paul

The HTA is a provincial offence, one of many. The Provincial Offences Act itself is procedural legislation governing all provincial statutes. Set fines and short form wordings of offences are enabled by the POA and administered by the Chief Justice, Ontario Court of Justice. They are published is schedules: many, many schedules. In the rare instance where there is no wording/set fine, then the enforcement person cannot simply make one up (as he looks at his shoes self consciously). There might be a procedural bylaw in the Municipal Code that consolidates them - I looked with no luck. They also might be laid out in one or more POA schedules. I looked at a couple of obvious ones with no luck but there are simply too many to scan.

I think the issue of whether where the offence occurred on a path or road is a bit moot since the infraction states 'in a park'. we only naturally assume it would be on a road, path, etc., but it could just as easily be across the grass. Your friend is right that signage is key on public highways. HTA signs, both in their design and placement, are governed by regulations. Whether the general authority for the GM of parks to 'post signage' would survive a court challenge (or possibly has, IDK) is unknown. I doubt there are many highways of general and open passage with parks in Toronto.

Your example of 608-29B is interesting, because 608-54 (Penalties and Administrative Penalties) states:

E. Every person convicted of an offence under this chapter, other than an administrative penalty under §§ 608-27A, B, C, D, E.1, F or 608-30.1 or an offence under § 608-32, is liable to a fine as provided for in the Provincial Offences Act. ​

which tells us 'endangering by bicycle' would be proceeded with via a an offence notice and set fine scheduled under the POA - somewhere.

No doubt somebody in Municipal Standards and Licensing would know this off the top of their head. Unfortunately, I've tried to auger my way through this topic but bylaws and their enforcement were never my thing so am pretty much throwing my hands up.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I don't think those "20 km/h" speed limits signs follow the MTA standards nor even international standards.

I might accept this sign. It means 20 km/h and NO bicycles allowed to the right.

From link.