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Rishi Sunak's United Kingdom

the thing about the UK was that it was benefiting from the EU and was also stoppinz it from becoming a transnational undemocratic technocracy

They we were better staying in
 
BurlOak said:
Point is that Regions and countries are becoming more unified on trade, but also separating when diverse cultures are too difficult to assemble in a single country.
Click to expand...

What the hell are you on about?

You foolishly compared Britain leaving the EU to the break-ups of Czechoslovakia (a highly psychologically traumatised populace at the time) and Yugoslavia (a mad punch-up, to put it mildly).

Now you're saying your point in doing so was to illustrate the fact that regions are breaking apart from larger assemblies of nations because/when it's too difficult to assemble disparate groups in a single country.
What does that have to do with Brexit? The EU isn't a single country and Britain leaving it isn't because they've all found it rather difficult to integrate Britons into the country that isn't.

Make some sense, man! Come on, think logically and within the bounds of reason....you're an engineer.

Do you know what Europe is like? Anything west of Ukraine is pretty well the same place. Of course there are pretty big cultural differences amongst the various ethnic groups found therein, but socio-politically and socio-economically, the continent (including all outlying islands) is basically the same sort of liberal democracy. In fact, you can go ahead and chuck in Canada, Australia, and New Zealand and you've got some sort of liberal world order-type assembly of nations.

Brexit is a fool's game.

Edit: No, you know what.....everything west of Vladivostok is basically the same place, though if you start adding some of the eastern friends you start introducing less liberal versions of socio-political being, but by and large, culturally, it's the same place. I'm telling you, those white folk are all the same. I'm not sure why some Britons think they're special.
 
If the EU was just a trade agreement that the UK wanted to walk away from we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. The EU is a wide-emcompassing set of treaties that involve trade, economic policies, freedom of travel and employment and literally hundreds of other binding arrangements. Many service industry jobs and other low paying and blue collar work in the UK were perceived as being taken up by 'foreigners'. 'They' are stealing 'our' jobs (notwithstanding many locals didn't want to do them anyway). It's on a different scale than many of us over here can envision. Imagine if the USMCA - or whatever it ends up being called - allowed, say, Mexicans unfettered access to work up here. Of course, we could freely work down there, but given the economic disparities - not unlike between some EU members - who would. I still maintain they are better in than out, and leaving may well be the first unravelling of the UK, but it is a Gordian Knot that I don't think many voters understand.
 
lenaitch said:
If the EU was just a trade agreement that the UK wanted to walk away from we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. The EU is a wide-emcompassing set of treaties that involve trade, economic policies, freedom of travel and employment and literally hundreds of other binding arrangements. Many service industry jobs and other low paying and blue collar work in the UK were perceived as being taken up by 'foreigners'. 'They' are stealing 'our' jobs (notwithstanding many locals didn't want to do them anyway). It's on a different scale than many of us over here can envision. Imagine if the USMCA - or whatever it ends up being called - allowed, say, Mexicans unfettered access to work up here. Of course, we could freely work down there, but given the economic disparities - not unlike between some EU members - who would. I still maintain they are better in than out, and leaving may well be the first unravelling of the UK, but it is a Gordian Knot that I don't think many voters understand.
Click to expand...

Ooohh, we've got a second poster tonight getting a +10!

I love seeing Gordian Knot in a sentence! Woot!

LOL, I get too excited by eloquent speech........

But you are 100% on point here, great post!

I hasten to add, the issue of 'Polish Plumbers' as its often labelled in the UK is not one that is all that easily resolved by leaving the E-U.

Putting aside the resulting plumber shortage......

There is a failure in the minds of the public to link the 'Polish Plumbers' to the ' Frankfurt Financiers'; and to those many Brits working on the continent.

Likewise a failure to consider E-U support payments to economically distressed areas like Cornwall, not merely consider the costs of same.

Un-doing this is manageable.........but expensive, time-consuming and not without consequence.
 
looking into the history of the UK, they have had a strong tendency to not like influence from Europe...
 
Jasmine18 said:
looking into the history of the UK, they have had a strong tendency to not like influence from Europe...
Click to expand...

I'm not sure British or UK history holds a whole lot of 'influence conflict' with the continent (outside of the Catholic church) but they do have a history of, perhaps, wary or self interest engagement. At various points in time, many of the now EU countries have variously been allies, enemies, trading partners and empirical competitors. The British and UK have, by dint of geography, been closely involved with the continent but always desired to be seen as apart (separate but equal?).
 
Jasmine18 said:
looking into the history of the UK, they have had a strong tendency to not like influence from Europe...
Click to expand...

Yes, and they also have a strong tendency to be dragged into whatever is happening in Europe - by design or by accident because they never ceased being involved. You know, that's why the EU was actually formed in the first place - to prevent the particularly nasty whatevers from happening again?

AoD
 
Jasmine18 said:
looking into the history of the UK, they have had a strong tendency to not like influence from Europe...
Click to expand...

From another perspective, isolationism (which this ultimately is) works a whole lot better when your economy is closer to being self sustaining. Other than coal, the UK has a dearth of land -based natural resources and, regardless of source, natural resources are all finite, and it's a small place. What they had in the past was industry and innovation, but relied on trading partners and empire to feed it. I doubt the populace has a sound idea how Brexit will effect them, both in the broader sense of national economy, employment, etc. but it the more day-to-day personal sense of the cost and choice of food they have become accustomed to or the now fairly simple act of travelling to the continent. The Chunnel, ferries and airports will all become ports of entry, both for personal travel and the movement of goods.
 
lenaitch said:
From another perspective, isolationism (which this ultimately is) works a whole lot better when your economy is closer to being self sustaining. Other than coal, the UK has a dearth of land -based natural resources and, regardless of source, natural resources are all finite, and it's a small place. What they had in the past was industry and innovation, but relied on trading partners and empire to feed it. I doubt the populace has a sound idea how Brexit will effect them, both in the broader sense of national economy, employment, etc. but it the more day-to-day personal sense of the cost and choice of food they have become accustomed to or the now fairly simple act of travelling to the continent. The Chunnel, ferries and airports will all become ports of entry, both for personal travel and the movement of goods.
Click to expand...

To be even blunter - what it had was empire, and it isn't going to have it again.

AoD
 
Not Suprised


Boris for all his faults won the game of messaging with "get brexit done" and it seemed a lot of people in the UK were annoyed with the Stalemate over brexit and just wanted the issue to be settled.
 
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