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Red-light city

CDL.TO said:
For example in my new neighbourhood at Queen and Jones, I haven't timed it yet but I would estimate that Jones Ave traffic has to wait about 4 minutes for a green light. I've seen people get sick of waiting and just run the red when the way is clear.
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Those are the worst. There's a light on my way home at night that's the same. No cross traffic, but the red lasts well over a minute. I'd love to see flashing reds/yellows at night, or even roundabouts in some cases.
 
kettal said:
Yet Montreal and New York don't have these problems.

The problem with downtown Hamilton is that the cars aren't going to or from downtown at all, they're just cutting through it as a fast way to get to the 403.
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Show me a place in downtown Montreal or Manhattan where the traffic flows rapidly and continuously. Exactly. It doesn't happen. Traffic congestion of at least some sort is a basic property of any "real" city. If you want way to turn streets in urban centres into free-flowing arteries you can do it, but most proposals inevitably come at a direct cost to the street's viability for small business and pedestrians.

Indeed, the only reason the cars in central Hamilton are cutting through it as fast way to get to the 403 is because some traffic engineers in the 1960s decided it needed to be a fast way to the 403. The fact that Toronto didn't go down this route is yet another one of those quiet little non-decisions that helped make it the city it is today.
 
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Platform 27 said:
Show me a place in downtown Montreal or Manhattan where the traffic flows rapidly and continuously. Exactly. It doesn't happen. Traffic congestion of at least some sort is a basic property of any "real" city. If you want way to turn streets in urban centres into free-flowing arteries you can do it, but most proposals inevitably come at a direct cost to the street's viability for small business and pedestrians.

Indeed, the only reason the cars in central Hamilton are cutting through it as fast way to get to the 403 is because some traffic engineers in the 1960s decided it needed to be a fast way to the 403. The fact that Toronto didn't go down this route is yet another one of those quiet little non-decisions that helped make it the city it is today.
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Yes, I know, it's a highway bypass by design. But that's due to a combination of factors, including too-wide one way streets, lack of local traffic, and perhaps the green wave too.

It's a bit silly to say downtown Toronto will turn into downtown Hamilton just by reprogramming the traffic lights.
 
I'm not sure on the feasibility, but would be neat taking all the four lane streets downtown (Queen/Richmond/Adelaide/King/Wellington/Front) and turning them into three lane one way streets with nice bike lanes, but using better signaling (green wave), and maybe better interchanges, to compensate for the decrease in road space. I think at the conceptual level it would be better to have less lanes but used more efficiently. I'm not sure about how much improvement in traffic flow something like the "Green Wave" could yield though.
 
All I ask is for the light cycle in each direction to be long enough for a normal pedestrian to cross on the green. As a completely healthy 30-something adult with a brisk walk there are many times where the hand starts flashing when I'm 1/4 the way across, and then turning cars start nipping at my heels. I'd be amazed if anyone elderly or slightly disabled could survive long.

In terms of reds, I think a lot of this has to do with our general impatience these days, combined with a bit of grass-is-greener thinking. People seem to take it personal when they have to wait 18 seconds for a light to change, and describe it as taking "five minutes". No matter which direction you are going it always seems like the other direction is getting priority. Etc. Sometimes we all need to remember that the world does not revolve around us, and the traffic lights are not our personal servants. Sometimes you need to just wait 30 seconds and move on with your life without having to blame the City of Toronto, David Miller, Steven Harper, or the Pope for the Injustice Of It All.
 
PukeGreen said:
In terms of reds, I think a lot of this has to do with our general impatience these days, combined with a bit of grass-is-greener thinking. People seem to take it personal when they have to wait 18 seconds for a light to change, and describe it as taking "five minutes". No matter which direction you are going it always seems like the other direction is getting priority. Etc.
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I would definitely say that most people have this perspective.

But some of us take these things seriously and stand there, looking at our watches and counting. Perhaps shaking our heads that the intersection that used to have a 80/20 timing ratio on a 2-minute cycle now sees a 60/40 ratio on a 3-minute cycle... which is clearly unnecessary.

:p
 
When driving, I often find the verrrry long cycles at intersections in the 905 more annoying than the relatively quick cycles we get in Toronto. But of course it's way easier to make a left in the 905 than it is in Toronto...

Generally, I kind of think the Toronto Transportation department is way behind the times when it comes to signalling technology. The lack of any kind of real transit signal priority (which would benefit both transit riders & automobiles) is the most marked evidence of this.

Unless they make some quick improvements, the introduction of the new, much longer streetcars on the downtown streets are going to cause some major screw-ups with blocked intersections, etc.
 
Here's an interesting tidbit.

A total of 83% of our signals are controlled by a central computer, which is called the Main Traffic Signal System (MTSS). MTSS provides different timing plans for different times of day and allows Transportation staff to monitor its operation.

More than 15% of our signals are on the SCOOT system. SCOOT (Split, Cycle and Offset Optimization Technique) is a demand-responsive Urban Traffic Control system. The system uses “loop vehicle detectors” located on all approaches to the intersection. The data produced by these detectors are processed by a central co-ordinating computer, which may decide to alter the traffic signals at an intersection. One of the features of SCOOT is that signal timings are changed frequently (typically every phase or cycle) and gradually (usually by only a few seconds at a time).
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http://www.scoot-utc.com/
 
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I've been bithcing about the lack of a "green wave" for a long time...Drive North or South through DT during rush hour, and you'll almost hit every red. It's amazing.

Front through Dundas is terrible... North of that, you see some coordination.
 
GraphicMatt said:
You know what is awesome in Toronto, though, is the pedestrian countdown timers. They're great for drivers, too. I miss them when I'm outside the city.
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+1

They probably do just as much for drivers as they do for pedestrians....though that's probably not good (tempts people to speed to beat the yellow).
 
kEiThZ said:
They probably do just as much for drivers as they do for pedestrians....though that's probably not good (tempts people to speed to beat the yellow).
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I'm not noticing increased speeding on the yellow ... if anything I think there is less. If the countdown is at 15 then drivers won't speed up, when they might used to. And if they are so far back they don't have a chance and it says 3, they won't accelerate at all. Some even seem to deccelerate earlier seeing that they won't make it.

I'm sure there's always one or two that might do different ... but I think most are speeding less through yellows than they used to.
 
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