Neutrino
Senior Member
And transport them all to work
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Population of Toronto (Including Census Counts)
- Thread starter hawc
- Start date
And transport them all to work
TrickyRicky
Senior Member
Actually I don’t think fitting people in housing is the problem at all. The real problem is what kind of City they are fitting into regarding crowding of physical and social infrastructure. I’m in favour of preserving employment lands for instance over converting that land to housing.
Largely I think the built form of the City will remain unchanged with essential all new population housed in towers. Some densification of Yellow belts may occur but this will be offset by an ironic reduction in persons per household in yellow belts as low rise housing prices continue to rise.
Largely I think the built form of the City will remain unchanged with essential all new population housed in towers. Some densification of Yellow belts may occur but this will be offset by an ironic reduction in persons per household in yellow belts as low rise housing prices continue to rise.
rbt
Senior Member
Roughly the same place as the last half million went. 416 hasn't had significant greenfield expansion for a couple decades.
Nearly every big GTA greenfield developer of the 90's now has a well tuned condo development arm doing most of their business (by revenue).
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Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
Yes, that is especially evident based on the number of threads in the buildings section on here. ?
My comment was a bit rhetorical, but the underlying point is we need to rethink major parts of our planning status quo. For instance, our avenues have been designated for growth, and yet our mid-rise guidelines prohibits intensification along the avenues to the 8-14 storeys based on the avenue's ROW. This was sought for the purposes of enhancing the public realm, not for housing 1 million people. Meanwhile the areas adjacent to the avenues where only mid-rises are permitted, are largely "stable neighbourhoods" and are not designated for growth.
Relaxing standards along the avenues (e.g. allowing high-rises but ensuring that podiums fulfill public realm enhancement objectives) or opening up the stable neighbourhoods behind the avenues would go a long way towards housing that 1 million people, in a way that can be serviced by transit.
jje1000
Senior Member
I think people need to continue pushing to shift the planning version of the Overton Window.
There were already some sucesses this year with laneway housing, but the next pushes need to be focused on opening up certain areas of the Yellow Belt (i.e. along transit corridors) to small-scale intensification (combined with plans to improve linkages), and bump up acceptable densities along Avenues. The ultimate goal should be a right-to-build zoning code along the lines of the Japanese zoning codes, that allows small-scale development that's more responsive to demands (as opposed to large, multi-year multi-unit developments that are the norm now).
As for where to put people? I think that there's a compelling argument that if you removed all restrictions from the Yellow Belt, it could easily absorb another quarter-to-half-million within the existing urban fabric (especially considering that the existing built form is already underutilized due to the greying of the Belt), maybe a million-plus if it underwent a cycle of small-scale redevelopment. After all, most of Tokyo is low-rise, but high density.
Of course, that's hardly desired due to a lack of transit, road linkages, and in preserving the 'natural' feeling of the Yellow Belt, but there's definitely room for adaptation.
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Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
Those Yellowbelt Areas were more densely populated just a few decades ago, as many houses used to have more persons-per-household or included basement or 3rd-storey suites. Since then, throughout the Yellowbelt the owners either stopped renting basements, stopped having children, or sold to someone building a McMansion. Most stable neighbourhoods were built to accommodate services serving a population greater than exists in those same areas today, that is why in some neighbourhoods schools are under-capacity.
The "stable" nature of stable neighbourhoods is a myth.
Northern Light
Superstar
As a purely practical matter, I think the focus needs to be on the Avenues/major roads, where single-detaches homes need to be removed wholesale, along w/those properties they back onto in order to allow good midrise and some hirise housing to exist along the main road.
The other measure I think is important is to break up the super blocks where major roads are 2km apart.
Simply creating a new E-W street 1/2 way between Eglinton and St. Clair from VP to Brimley, and in so doing, create space for new development on both sides of the new road; mixing midrise and stacked townhomes; and you can 10,000 people on that one street alone (probably more).
Similar super blocks need break ups between Eglinton and Lawrence and between Lawrence and Ellesmere; both easily managing VP to Markham Rd. Those combined w/my first example would house 45,000 w/o missing a beat.
They would also create new useful bus route opportunities.
There are other similar opportunities in the City, North York tends to have 2km gaps between N-S roads; and one could be sensibly punched in between Bayview and Leslie; but that would pricier given real estate values and fewer existing ROWs that neatly fit such a plan.
Punching Senlac north from Finch to Steeles would be a good one.
Johnny Au
Senior Member
We could also expand the PATH to include residential uses. Yes, I mean underground residential complexes under the PATH.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Johnny Au
Senior Member
It would be great to have a real-time model of Toronto's population similar to what Statistics Canada is doing for the whole country (and the individual provinces and territories):
www150.statcan.gc.ca
Canada's population clock (real-time model)
This data visualization product provides information on the pace of population renewal in Canada. The web page shows a real-time model of population growth in Canada. The components of population growth are modelled in order to adjust the population of the country, provinces and territories...
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
Canada's population clock (real-time model)
This data visualization product provides information on the pace of population renewal in Canada. The web page shows a real-time model of population growth in Canada. The components of population growth are modelled in order to adjust the population of the country, provinces and territories...
That page is so dope! Thanks for posting that link.
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
This post today from another thread made me do a double-take.
Is the Greater Golden Horseshoe poised to overtake Greater London?
Northern Light
Superstar
The answer is No.
The fair comparison to the GGH is the London Metropolitan Area, which is currently at a population of 14,257,000
London metropolitan area - Wikipedia
The GTAH probably will overtake Greater London (not the Metropolitan number), but the GGH is unlikely to overtake its comparator, at least in the next 10-15 years.
That said, currently, the City of Toronto is growing much faster than those numbers cited above suggest. We're likely to hit that 2041 number by 2031 at the latest and maybe a few years sooner.
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JasonParis
Moderator
Despite the name, Greater London isn't actually "greater London." It's the name of the council that oversees 32 central boroughs/cities. The actual metropolis includes the home counties and we are nowhere close.
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
Yeah, forget it. We can't even get a decent football rivalry or grime night here*.
*--Ok, I meant regular grime night.
*--Ok, I meant regular grime night.