Politics: Tim Hudak's Plan for Ontario if he becomes Premier

[MrsNesbitt]

Look, I feel like this thread is getting a little bit venomous and I do apologize for helping it get that way what it boils down, for me, at least, is this.

Tim Hudak believes in a vision of Ontario that I don't agree with. He also uses flawed math and blatant untruths to support his cause. And he relentlessly attacks his opponents from positions of moral high ground that he and his party can't truly possess.

For any of us to be on this forum, we are sort of by default people who are interested in the expansion of public transit. So if that's the case, then the choice is clear.

I already voted this year; and though I'm not a partisan person, I voted Liberal. I'm willing to overlook some wasted dollars, undoubtedly, to avoid turning Ontario into a place that I don't want to live in.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I found a very interesting poll that says the total opposite of what you claim. From Forum research June 5.

In a PC minority, who should NDP support
Support the Liberals: 49% (58% of NDP supporters agree with this)
Support the PC's : 33% ( 14% o NDP supporters agree with this)
Support Neither : 10% (10% of NDP supporters agree with this)
Don't know : 8% (18% of NDP supporters agree with this)

In a Liberal minority, who should NDP support
Support the Liberals: 51% (62% of NDP supporters agree with this)
Support the PC's : 32% ( 17% o NDP supporters agree with this)
Support Neither : 11% ( 9% of NDP supporters agree with this
Don't know: 6% (12% of NDP supporter agree with this)

I find this to be one of the most interesting poll this entire election season. It tells so much. First it shows as negative we want to portray the Liberal brand. People are still more freaked out and more negative of the Conservatives. If we had ranked ballots there is enough NDP support that would push the Liberal to the 50% mark. While Conservatives are an island on themselves as there mid-30s support is pretty much that with not much support/cross-over from the NDP and Greens. By this poll it shows more general anti-Hudak feelings than anti Wynne. It also shows how screwed up Horwath is by calling this election when 60% of her party is comfortable with the status quo and prompting up the Liberals.

This is not shocking. Andrea needs to do very well or shell be pushed out of a job.

Look, I feel like this thread is getting a little bit venomous and I do apologize for helping it get that way what it boils down, for me, at least, is this.

Tim Hudak believes in a vision of Ontario that I don't agree with. He also uses flawed math and blatant untruths to support his cause. And he relentlessly attacks his opponents from positions of moral high ground that he and his party can't truly possess.

For any of us to be on this forum, we are sort of by default people who are interested in the expansion of public transit. So if that's the case, then the choice is clear.

I already voted this year; and though I'm not a partisan person, I voted Liberal. I'm willing to overlook some wasted dollars, undoubtedly, to avoid turning Ontario into a place that I don't want to live in.

I agree, I respect everyone's views here, and I want transit expansion just as much as anyone. I don't want to see strikes or people assaulting union workers.

 

[JKDM]

Look, I feel like this thread is getting a little bit venomous and I do apologize for helping it get that way what it boils down, for me, at least, is this.

Tim Hudak believes in a vision of Ontario that I don't agree with. He also uses flawed math and blatant untruths to support his cause. And he relentlessly attacks his opponents from positions of moral high ground that he and his party can't truly possess.

For any of us to be on this forum, we are sort of by default people who are interested in the expansion of public transit. So if that's the case, then the choice is clear.

I already voted this year; and though I'm not a partisan person, I voted Liberal. I'm willing to overlook some wasted dollars, undoubtedly, to avoid turning Ontario into a place that I don't want to live in.

It's considerably more than just "some wasted dollars".

Also, how would Hudak turn Ontario into a place where you wouldn't want to live? Our province isn't exactly doing well at the moment.

I find this level of fear to be absolutely outrageous and completely over-blown.

 

[nfitz]

It's considerably more than just "some wasted dollars".

What about the wasted dollars last time that the Conservatives were willing to spend to fill in the Eglinton subway? What about the wasted dollars Hudak was willing to spend to cancel gas plants? What about the wasted dollars Hudak IS willing to spend to cancel LRT lines? What about the long history of Conservative corruption in this province, dating to Sir John A. himself taking bribes? This corruption has continued throughout the years to recent times, with Brian Mulroney also admitting to taking cash payments in brown paper bags, while he was in Parliament. Real corruption ... there's no suggestion of similar types of corruption from politicians in what happened recently ... remember that the only MPP guilty of corruption in the current Parliament was Tory Peter Shurman!

Also, how would Hudak turn Ontario into a place where you wouldn't want to live? Our province isn't exactly doing well at the moment.

I'm sure you remember what Harris did, the damage that did, the decades of damage to transit and the TTC. And the fiscal instability it lead to, with massive tax cuts that weren't sustainable, yet politically difficult to correct.

I find this level of fear to be absolutely outrageous and completely over-blown.

Again ... do you forget Harris?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Look, I feel like this thread is getting a little bit venomous...

I'm not surprised. IMO, Tim Hudak is by far the most polarizing figure I've seen in a while. There are people who love the guy, some who dislike him, and a lot who absolutely despise him. I'd even say that there are more than a few people are convinced that he's hellbent on destroying the lives of Ontarians.

It was just yesterday evening that I witnessed a group of young people telling a friend that he better be voting and that his vote better not be for Hudak. They then went on to say some borderline threatening things about Mr. Hudak.

Within my own family, I can say that there are people who are very concerned if a Hudak gov't is Harris 2.0. They remember the Harris days and remain absolutely livid over the policies of that government. With the forced amalgamations, the 407 situation, the state of education in the day, Walkerton, downloading (etc...), they've never felt so betrayed by any other government.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Seriously, anyone who ever goes through the mental process of, "I realize this candidate is a bigoted, discriminatory individual who wishes to strip rights from individuals in this country, but I don't care because he'll save me a few bucks" is an absolutely disgusting individual. I can't put into word what contempt I would have for someone like that. Anyone who is willing to put a price tag on rights and freedoms of others deserves to have all of theirs immediately stripped away.

However, I don't believe for a second that there are many people who will be voting for the PC's that have went through said mental process. And during this campaign, I don't recall Hudak saying or promising to do anything bigoted or discriminatory.

And I have no problem with that.

I hope you're saying that you have no problem with them having all their rights stripped away and not that you're okay with people sacrificing the rights others to save a few bucks

 

[nfitz]

And I have no problem with that.

You have no problem with people choosing to vote for a bigot?

This flyer came from people within the PC party, not necessarily Timmy. You're just slamming him because he's the leader.

I'm slamming, because he defended it - clearly demonstrating that he's a homophobic bigot.

This gay stuff you're bringing up is a major distraction from the issues at hand.

How is raising questions of basic decency, morals, and ethics a major distraction to the issues at hand?

The point is to convince people (the public, not ut posters) to vote liberal despite the scandals. Right now you are doing a terrible job.

I'm not trying to get anyone to vote Liberal. If you're offended by what Wynne did (though I'm not aware of her doing much in particular ...) then vote Green, vote NDP, vote independent, spoil your ballot. It's not like the Tories haven't had enough scandals, often involving them personally receiving $ in their pocket.

I'm simply pointing out that Hudak, like anyone who publicly opposes same-sex marriage, is an immoral bigot. I really can't comprehend anyone being so utterly evil or immoral to knowingly vote for such bigotry. Surely no one could disagree with something so basic.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I hope you're saying that you have no problem with them having all their rights stripped away and not that you're okay with people sacrificing the rights others to save a few bucks

I have no problem with your post.

You have no problem with people choosing to vote for a bigot?

I'm slamming, because he defended it - clearly demonstrating that he's a homophobic bigot.

How is raising questions of basic decency, morals, and ethics a major distraction to the issues at hand?

I'm not trying to get anyone to vote Liberal. If you're offended by what Wynne did (though I'm not aware of her doing much in particular ...) then vote Green, vote NDP, vote independent, spoil your ballot. It's not like the Tories haven't had enough scandals, often involving them personally receiving $ in their pocket.

I'm simply pointing out that Hudak, like anyone who publicly opposes same-sex marriage, is an immoral bigot. I really can't comprehend anyone being so utterly evil or immoral to knowingly vote for such bigotry. Surely no one could disagree with something so basic.

No your intentionally distracting from the issues because you are bringing up something from the 2011 election. It's 2014. If you don't know what has gone on in the Liberal Government, you are not a informed voter. Are you?

 

[nfitz]

No your intentionally distracting from the issues because you are bringing up something from the 2011 election. It's 2014.

So we should ignore everything from 2011

If you don't know what has gone on in the Liberal Government, you are not a informed voter. Are you?

Now wait a minute. E-health was sometime last decade. Power plants were 2010 and 2011. Ornge was 2011 and 2012.

You can't have it both ways. Sure, McGuinty made mistakes. But that isn't Wynne. What has the current Liberal government done that's so terrible since coming to power in 2013? The other issues predate the current government. And the current government has been very transparent about power plants (more so than Hudak has been - remember he's yet to reveal how much he thought it would cost when he made promises about power plants).

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

So we should ignore everything from 2011

Now wait a minute. E-health was sometime last decade. Power plants were 2010 and 2011. Ornge was 2011 and 2012.

You can't have it both ways. Sure, McGuinty made mistakes. But that isn't Wynne. What has the current Liberal government done that's so terrible since coming to power in 2013? The other issues predate the current government. And the current government has been very transparent about power plants (more so than Hudak has been - remember he's yet to reveal how much he thought it would cost when he made promises about power plants).

Now where did I say anything about decades? We all know its 1 billion (media soundbite) to cancel the plants so you can cut that out immediately. You do get why people are upset about that? You don't get why people were mad about e-health and ornge? Give me a break. You're out of touch with the public on this one

 

[jje1000]

I find this level of fear to be absolutely outrageous and completely over-blown.

There are several factors in the Hudak fear-fest:

- Hudak's policies are reminiscent of Harris' policies in that they target workers as the primary source of the waste
- Hudak was involved directly in the Harris government as a cabinet member
- Hudak has proposed far more conservative proposals in the past (Right-to-Work), and people fear that they may still be part of the Hudak government's underlying goals
- Hudak isn't exactly clear on his math, but insists he's correct- Does that mean that the Million Jobs slogan is simply a slogan?
- Hudak has proposed cancelling transit improvements across the province
- Hudak and the Harper government are fairly similar in that they've shared many Harris-era links throughout the years. John Baird has reportedly helped Hudak on the campaign. People are understandibly upset about the Harper government and its transgressions in these last few years, and don't want the same tactics applied here
- Hudak has links down to the American Conservative movement- people also don't want more of that coming up here
- Hudak presents a poor public image when he isn't coached- he also looks conniving with them evil eyebrows!

Not all of these are well-founded, and some people would actually argue against some of these points.

 

[WislaHD]

Look, I feel like this thread is getting a little bit venomous and I do apologize for helping it get that way what it boils down, for me, at least, is this.

Tim Hudak believes in a vision of Ontario that I don't agree with. He also uses flawed math and blatant untruths to support his cause. And he relentlessly attacks his opponents from positions of moral high ground that he and his party can't truly possess.

For any of us to be on this forum, we are sort of by default people who are interested in the expansion of public transit. So if that's the case, then the choice is clear.

I already voted this year; and though I'm not a partisan person, I voted Liberal. I'm willing to overlook some wasted dollars, undoubtedly, to avoid turning Ontario into a place that I don't want to live in.

This exactly.

This election to me really boils down to whether I will be able to use the public transit proposed when I am 30, or when I am 50. The answer to that question makes it strikingly clear who has my vote.

 

[nfitz]

We all know its 1 billion (media soundbite) to cancel the plants so you can cut that out immediately.

Sure I do. McGuinty promised this, and he should resign. Oh wait, he did, I'm surprised you didn't notice. Hudak promised this and he should resign too. Wait, he didn't ... do you get why people are so upset about this? How does Hudak get a free pass on this? We should we set back the GTA by decades, to extract revenge on people who have already resigned?!? It's completely non-sensical.

More to the point - this is primarily a transit discussion. How can we possibly be considering discussing the Tories in pro-transit ways given what they cancelled, defunded, and filled in last time they were elected. and what they have promised to cancel, defund, and defer this time?

Hudak's promise to eliminate the existing provincial funding to TTC (and every other transit agency in Ontario) alone is enough to decide the issue!

 

[GenerationW]

At the same time, Hudak has completely failed to address the Rob Ford situation, despite the many inexcusable comments that Ford has made.

Have Wynne and Horwath addressed the Ford situation that much differently? Seems like Wynne left it all up to City Council.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Sure I do. McGuinty promised this, and he should resign. Oh wait, he did, I'm surprised you didn't notice. Hudak promised this and he should resign too. Wait, he didn't ... do you get why people are so upset about this? How does Hudak get a free pass on this? We should we set back the GTA by decades, to extract revenge on people who have already resigned?!? It's completely non-sensical.

More to the point - this is primarily a transit discussion. How can we possibly be considering discussing the Tories in pro-transit ways given what they cancelled, defunded, and filled in last time they were elected. and what they have promised to cancel, defund, and defer this time?

Hudak's promise to eliminate the existing provincial funding to TTC (and every other transit agency in Ontario) alone is enough to decide the issue!

fair enough. We'll see on thursday.

Have Wynne and Horwath addressed the Ford situation thst much differently? Seems like Wynne left it all up to City Council.

I don't get it, what do people want them to do? There is no remedy to remove the mayor (there should be) Leaving it to city council is the right call.