PM Mark Carney's Canada

[lenaitch]

This is exactly what Frum pointed out. If people are fed up with the current immigration system and you keep telling the public that only the fascists care about immigration, guess who they'll elect? We saw this in the US. We're seeing this in Europe. There is only one left-leaning party that doesn't have an issue with the far-right making hay of immigration in Europe. And guess what they did?

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/24/magazine/denmark-immigration-policy-progressives.html

What was wrong with our previous point system that the Trudeau government had to create and/or massively expand alternative immigration (TFW) and residency (student to PGWP) pathways to that system? And next, why the hell did they not readjust when the abuses were getting obvious? It took them till 2024 to react. What kind of governance is that?



The same public that didn't have a problem with immigration for decades is suddenly the problem? Sorry, I'd say the problem is the with the system and some of the current immigrants it brings in.

To me, a big part of the problem is identified in this news article. Setting aside what he is alleged to have done or where he came from:

Court heard Singh arrived in Canada from India in 2020 as an international student. He got a work permit in 2022 and has been working as a truck driver since, Gautam said.

You come as a student: get your education and leave.
You want to work: apply from where you are resident.

My son-in-law was a part-time IT prof for a few years including during Covid; years two and three of a three-year program. A significant majority were international students. There were some students he saw only occasionally, some not at all.

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

You can reject these views. As the all the evidence, including Canadian ones linked upthread, shows, the voters won't do that.

If the surge of the far-right everywhere from Japan to the US to Europe to here hasn't changed your mind, I don't know what will. Best of luck in getting others to agree, you'll need it!

The straw man here is I am not rejecting any evidence of this whatsoever, rather raising concerns about where the voters and pundits are going with this…

…but I will leave you to think whatever you want about my positions. I have no intentions of turning this into some crusade, rather allow more seasoned minds to speak to this….if they are any around. /shrug

 

[guavadelic]

The Canada Strong Pass thing is fine, as far as it goes, the evidence from this year seems to be that it did aid in bolstering domestic tourism; though many Canadians (and others) are independently boycotting the U.S. which I suspect is the more influential factor.

Something that would further boost domestic tourism is doing something about the skyhigh costs of domestic air travel. I have relatives who decided to eschew their planned U.S. vacation for a domesitc trip and were shocked by the prices. Not sure what the Carney government's position is on the recommendations from the Competition Bureau released earlier this year but they would do well to take steps to increasing competition in the industry.

You come as a student: get your education and leave.
You want to work: apply from where you are resident.

My son-in-law was a part-time IT prof for a few years including during Covid; years two and three of a three-year program. A significant majority were international students. There were some students he saw only occasionally, some not at all.

A remedy that could ensure students issued visas are here to actually study is a restriction that would forbid off-campus work for the first two years of the study period. Currently they are allowed up to 24 hours per week during study periods but i'm not sure if that is actually being enforced.

 

[Northern Light]

Something that would further boost domestic tourism is doing something about the skyhigh costs of domestic air travel. I have relatives who decided to eschew their planned U.S. vacation for a domesitc trip and were shocked by the prices. Not sure what the Carney government's position is on the recommendations from the Competition Bureau released earlier this year but they would do well to take steps to increasing competition in the industry.

I'd be interested to hear what trips they were looking at, as Canadian prices swing quite a bit from one market to another.

Base ticket prices in a quick scan I just did for Toronto-Vancouver vs Buffalo - LA, showed comparable pricing, maybe even a bit cheaper in Canada.

Toronto to Thunder Bay, however, is noticeably more expensive.

Competition aside, I suspect add-on Airport Improvement Fees and well as Airport Landing Fees (built-in to ticket price) are key factors in higher costs in Canada.

Air Canada provides a handy list of AIFs for Canada, here:

https://www.aircanada.com/content/dam/aircanada/portal/documents/PDF/en/airport-improvement-fee.pdf

I found a list of Pearson's Aeronautical Fees - 2025:

https://cdn.torontopearson.com/-/media/project/pearson/content/corporate/partnering/pdfs/2025-aeronautical-fees.pdf?rev=e56fffb4fa8041bba6d376e25822df9b&hash=465D3141E2AC3F480559B60C1B40FD53

Here's a list of Buffalo-Niagara' fees:

https://www.nfta.com/sites/default/files/DocLibMediaFileUpload/BUF%20Airport/buftariffjul1-2023.pdf

Have fun w/those and see how they compare (I'm not sure I haven't take the time, but I am curious)

 

[Admiral Beez]

You come as a student: get your education and leave.
You want to work: apply from where you are resident.

Exactly this. I wish this is what Canada did from day one. If I go to France to get my MBA, I’m not staying in France afterwards, but am expected to return to Canada. If after my studies I decide I want to live permanently in France, I would apply from Canada.

 

[afransen]

I think, prior to the diploma mill excesses, letting students work for 3 years after graduating makes sense and is a benefit to the country. Why shoo away well educated, young people who are at the beginning of their productive years and raising families?

 

[lenaitch]

Something that would further boost domestic tourism is doing something about the skyhigh costs of domestic air travel. I have relatives who decided to eschew their planned U.S. vacation for a domesitc trip and were shocked by the prices. Not sure what the Carney government's position is on the recommendations from the Competition Bureau released earlier this year but they would do well to take steps to increasing competition in the industry.

A remedy that could ensure students issued visas are here to actually study is a restriction that would forbid off-campus work for the first two years of the study period. Currently they are allowed up to 24 hours per week during study periods but i'm not sure if that is actually being enforced.

I'm really not bothered by limited off-campus work by students. Post secondary is expensive, it would be part-time (assuming they are actually attending class) and on-campus employment can be quite limited, particularly at a smaller campus.

Driving long-haul truck doesn't seem to fit.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Why shoo away well educated, young people who are at the beginning of their productive years and raising families?

Why does every other country do it? I’d be okay with giving Canadian-educated foreigners preference if they apply for permanent residency after they return to their country of origin.

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

…and then there are those students who come here to party and have a good time.

 

[kEiThZ]

You can reject these views. As the all the evidence, including Canadian ones linked upthread, shows, the voters won't do that.

If the surge of the far-right everywhere from Japan to the US to Europe to here hasn't changed your mind, I don't know what will. Best of luck in getting others to agree, you'll need it!

And the article I linked to is explaining the only exception in the Western world where the Far right is getting crashed by a boring old centre-left party. One would think progressives would be genuinely interested in this, as we stare down neofascists everywhere.

 

[kEiThZ]

Why does every other country do it? I’d be okay with giving Canadian-educated foreigners preference if they apply for permanent residency after they return to their country of origin.

Why bother with that?

Let them apply from here.

Let's be honest here. It's the system that is broken. We should be able to shortlist programs and reputable institutions whose grads we want. Do you think a nurse graduating from McGill should have to go back to their country of origin and apply from there? I don't see the point. On the other hand, you go to Centennial and get a marketing diploma or get a generic BA, I don't think there will be value for that person. That's the person you want going back.

 

[kEiThZ]

Exactly this. I wish this is what Canada did from day one. If I go to France to get my MBA, I’m not staying in France afterwards, but am expected to return to Canada. If after my studies I decide I want to live permanently in France, I would apply from Canada.

This is silly. In your example, let's say you go to HEC Paris or INSEAD and top the class. And let's say Credit Agricole or BNP Paribas want to hire you based on that impressive academic performance, by your logic, they should have to return to their home country first. And sit there doing nothing. More than likely they'll get poached.

This is the problem with all these discussions. People lump elite talent with their latest Uber Eats driver and think policy should be equal. That is not how you make good immigration policy or build a better economy.

 

[kEiThZ]

Why does every other country do it? I’d be okay with giving Canadian-educated foreigners preference if they apply for permanent residency after they return to their country of origin.

Except they don't? Most places shoo away regular folks. Not top talent. Continuing the above example, France is going to treat a graduate of the Grandes Écoles differently from say a history major from the University of Strasbourg. Most countries aren't morons and can distinguish between the two sets.

 

[lenaitch]

Why bother with that?

Let them apply from here.

Let's be honest here. It's the system that is broken. We should be able to shortlist programs and reputable institutions whose grads we want. Do you think a nurse graduating from McGill should have to go back to their country of origin and apply from there? I don't see the point. On the other hand, you go to Centennial and get a marketing diploma or get a generic BA, I don't think there will be value for that person. That's the person you want going back.

Good distinction. I never looked at it that way.

 

[kEiThZ]

Good distinction. I never looked at it that way.

It's extremely frustrating to me (as someone who has lived elsewhere and seen different policies) how Canadians largely refuse to employ nuance in policy making. No grey. Everything has to be black or white.