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PM Justin Trudeau's Canada

Towered said:
Good point - how would the 4 maritime provinces function if they were physically separated from the rest of Canada by an independent and assertive Quebec? That'd be very awkward.
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They wouldn't. And we would have problems elsewhere too. I think Torontonians forget that there's huge parts of our own province that have substantial francophone minorities, who would themselves now feel less secure without Quebec in Confederation. It's such a Toronto centric view to think it's no big deal if Quebec leaves. I think that would be the end of Canada as we know it. The only question is whether we remain as a balkanized collection or get absorbed into the US.
 
kEiThZ said:
They wouldn't. And we would have problems elsewhere too. I think Torontonians forget that there's huge parts of our own province that have substantial francophone minorities, who would themselves now feel less secure without Quebec in Confederation. It's such a Toronto centric view to think it's no big deal if Quebec leaves. I think that would be the end of Canada as we know it. The only question is whether we remain as a balkanized collection or get absorbed into the US.
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Not only that - but what it will do to our system of alliances. There is a reason why our adversaries are stroking separatist sentiments and movements across the western world.

AoD
 
kEiThZ said:
They wouldn't. And we would have problems elsewhere too. I think Torontonians forget that there's huge parts of our own province that have substantial francophone minorities, who would themselves now feel less secure without Quebec in Confederation. It's such a Toronto centric view to think it's no big deal if Quebec leaves. I think that would be the end of Canada as we know it. The only question is whether we remain as a balkanized collection or get absorbed into the US.
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If Quebec ever cared about the non-Quebec Franco-Canadians they might garner broader support for their cause.

An then there would be the issue of the NCR and the indigenous far north.
 
lenaitch said:
If Quebec ever cared about the non-Quebec Franco-Canadians they might garner broader support for their cause.
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How exactly do you imagine this would go? Just imagine the backlash in Southern Ontario if Quebec started talking about minority language rights in Northern Ontario. Part of the reason, Quebec does feel threatened is because of how much the rights of Francophones in the rest of Canada have been eroded. Just look at how much Ford has cut back on Franco-Ontarian institutions. How much has the rest of Ontario spoken up about that?

lenaitch said:
An then there would be the issue of the NCR and the indigenous far north.
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What issues? Very likely the NCR stops being the capital of a Canada without Quebec. And the territories aren't leaving with Quebec. But if Canada balkanizes further, we'll definitely have questions about who owns the Arctic. I think questions like these are likely why the rest of Canada simply gets absorbed by the US. Till that happens though the turmoil will be insane.
 
kEiThZ said:
How exactly do you imagine this would go? Just imagine the backlash in Southern Ontario if Quebec started talking about minority language rights in Northern Ontario. Part of the reason, Quebec does feel threatened is because of how much the rights of Francophones in the rest of Canada have been eroded. Just look at how much Ford has cut back on Franco-Ontarian institutions. How much has the rest of Ontario spoken up about that?
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I wasn't thinking of anything active or overt, but it seems whenever a franco-x issue has come up outside of Quebec they have been quite silent. It's not just Ontario but Manitoba and, more importantly, New Brunswick. Perhaps it is is a strategic position they have staked out; we'll not comment on on issues outside of Quebec so the ROC should do the same with our 'domestic' issues. IDK.

kEiThZ said:
What issues? Very likely the NCR stops being the capital of a Canada without Quebec. And the territories aren't leaving with Quebec. But if Canada balkanizes further, we'll definitely have questions about who owns the Arctic. I think questions like these are likely why the rest of Canada simply gets absorbed by the US. Till that happens though the turmoil will be insane.
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I only mentioned it in the sense that these two issues would once again become active should another referendum occur. The PQ et al, and those who support sovereignty, always market their ambitions as an intact sovereign Quebec marching off to a brave new future where, in reality, it would a lot more complicated (that and other financial dissolution matters). There are several regions of the province where support for independence is quite soft.

I agree that the ROC could not survive intact. I'm also not convinced a sovereign Quebec, or any other like minded province, could either. They would probably give it a good go until they bankrupted themselves.
 
kEiThZ said:
They wouldn't. And we would have problems elsewhere too. I think Torontonians forget that there's huge parts of our own province that have substantial francophone minorities, who would themselves now feel less secure without Quebec in Confederation. It's such a Toronto centric view to think it's no big deal if Quebec leaves. I think that would be the end of Canada as we know it. The only question is whether we remain as a balkanized collection or get absorbed into the US.
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You might be surprised to know that many Ontario francophones have no use for the Quebec " toothache". Asymmetrical federalism will work until it doesn't.
 
old boy said:
You might be surprised to know that many Ontario francophones have no use for the Quebec " toothache". Asymmetrical federalism will work until it doesn't.
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In the current setup? No. But how much motivation do you think there will be to continue protecting French language rights in the rest of Canada, after the only French majority province has left.
 
old boy said:
You might be surprised to know that many Ontario francophones have no use for the Quebec " toothache". Asymmetrical federalism will work until it doesn't.
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My family are Ontario Francophones. They never appreciate being lumped in with Quebec. They are Franco-ontarien(ne)s.
 
kEiThZ said:
This is the realization setting in that all their talk about the Arctic is hollow and now that we risk an organizational collapse of the RCN, with the new frigates a long way off, they have to do something immediately to stop the collapse. The RCN may just start pulling boats out of service.
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Well said. I am glad to see something new joining the fleet.

We’re not all monarchists, but Princess Anne is one hard worker.

Princess Anne takes part in keys-to-the-ship ceremony for Arctic navy vessel in B.C.​

 
The Americans are having the same discussion on generational fairness as we are. This absolutely raw TED talk is making the rounds. And a lot of what he talks about like the cost of housing and education, social security spending outpacing everything else, etc. would apply in Canada.

 
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