Plans to fill in Allen Road

[Undead]

Have you heard how the right has come out swinging against the 15 minutes neighborhood? What a world we live in

And some on the left are against the police doing their job. What's your point?

All to say that there's a regrettable overlap between progressives with urbanist ideas worth exploring; and those with truly nutso notions.

If implementing some of these urbanist ideals means bringing in the other baggage (as it almost always does), then I guess I'm on the right.

@Jaye101 I suggest my previous post here why any tunnel for Allen is a complete nonstarter.

 

[Jaye101]

The ‘15-Minute City’: What They Are And How To Build Them​

From link.

It seems like my proposal idea sparked some anger in you.

A reminder that it would reduce pedestrian conflicts by 50% over today, increase traffic dispersion in the area, and add a 1km long linear park to the neighbourhood. This would not only ameliorate pedestrian experience in Midtown, but would also offer more efficient connections for drivers into the Yonge and Eglinton area without adding virtually any new lanes of roadway.

 

[Northern Light]

And some on the left are against the police doing their job. What's your point?

You really do get too reactive at times.

You need to look up the applicable story.

This is about Edmonton's Mayor talking about the 15M City and Jordan Peterson suggesting this has to do with not letting people leave their neighbourhood.

And this twit:

Story: https://globalnews.ca/news/9483836/15-minute-city-edmonton-canada/

If implementing some of these urbanist ideals means bringing in the other baggage (as it almost always does), then I guess I'm on the right.

What baggage? The 15 minute City is a simple concept, that when planning, a City should endeavor to ensure daily necessities (grocery store, park, library, barbers, school etc) are within a 15M walk of every front door.

Is not complicated, there's no 'baggage' involved. Weird idea that there would be.

Its also fairly easy to achieve. If you ban drive-thrus and cap the size of grocery stores, and limit the amount of parking they can offer, then more locations will open up, reducing walking distance to same.

****

Now back to the actual topic of the thread........

 

[SashaLemon]

Oh no, the conspiracy theory weirdos are picking up on this...

He does not understand what "15 minute cities" means, and he barley blinks.

Reasonable urbanist: "Hey wouldn't it be cool if there where some shops and businesses in your neighborhood so you didn't have to drive across the city to buy milk or or get a sandwich?"
Right wing nut: "THE GLOBAL ELITES ARE TRYING TO CONTROL WHAT YOU DO, NOW LET ME TELL YOU EXACTLY WHAT YOU CAN'T DO! YOU CAN'T SETUP A CAFE IN YOUR HOUSE!"

Edit: Wow, he spent so much of this video just bitching about some sort of traffic filtering scheme in Oxford, England.

 

[Undead]

No, I stand by I said. The original post was something along the lines of "person who supports 15 minute city - good, person who doesn't support it - bad." I'm merely countering this bad logic because it's never that simplistic in real life. You may think you're voting for one good proposal on "your" side, but you're voting for the entire platform which always comes with iffy bits.

I think there's a broader context, sometimes more abstract, that you're missing in some cases.

Is not complicated, there's no 'baggage' involved. Weird idea that there would be.

The baggage is that the people who run on these sorts of urbanist platforms are also possessed of some less than worthy ideas. The mistake often made on this forum is that everyone votes solely from a hyper narrow urbanist focus. That's the bigger context I'm responding to when I see some hand-wavey "the right are opposed" type of claim.

I also think you'll find many on the right are reacting to the ideology baked into many such proposals. Which seems odd because the proposal for a new city design isn't/shouldn't be ideological. But we all know that's not how these proposals are presented in the political realm. There's often an overarching ideological vision wrongly attached and that's what the conservatives are reacting to. It's a case of being fed up with one side's politics and instinctively reacting to anything they suggest.

We alluded in another thread to urbanists being unable to build consensus and support for worthwhile initiatives without alienating the majority. And I find the OP's post more of that sort of thing.

But yes, let's get back on topic.

 

[jmi22]

Below shows what an underground toll Allen Expressway extension to the Gardiner might look like. The western leg of the DRL is incorporated within it. South of Eglinton there are only on and off highway ramps at Dupont and Ossington, at Ossington north of Harrison (between Dundas and College), just east of Bathurst on Adelaide (eastbound) and Richmond (westbound), and on Front St. just west of Bathurst. All subway stations along the underground toll route would be constructed at the same time as the toll route and paid for by the road tolls, including some of the intermodal station at Bathurst and Front. Note that this infrastructure provides an exit from the western Gardiner to the city road grid, allowing for eventual removal of the elevated Gardiner east of Strachan if this is deemed viable (I hope this happens at least east of Jarvis). Also note that this infrastructure still allows for extension of the rail deck park west of Bathurst and for the Fort York pedestrian bridge to the Garrison Triangle park and condo developments. Tunneling along the entire route occurs either underneath roads, parks, or 2-3 storey structures with shallow foundations.

Edit Delete Report

lmao no way he wanted to run the DRL up Ossington???? Ignoring the nonsensical tunneled highways this is insane in of itself.

 

[jmi22]

another one of the dreamworld proposals. it wont work here unless we have the infrastructure to back it up.
you think traffic will magically improve?

There is quite literally the highest capacity transit line in Canada running down the exact corridor of the Allen. If this does not satisfy your need for "infrastructure" I don't know what will.

 

[jmi22]

As bad as expressways tend to be from an urbanistic standpoint, I wish we had more arterial roads utilizing tunnels for motorized vehicles to create safer, quieter, more efficient, and more beautiful public spaces at surface level for pedestrians and cyclists.

Expressways do not remove traffic from local roads, they induce more to commute into the city via car. Once these vehicle arrive by highway they are not simply teleported to whichever office or restaurant the driver wishes to enter, they take space consuming off ramps and proceed to clog up local roads.

 

[sixrings]

Oh no, the conspiracy theory weirdos are picking up on this...

View attachment 456615

He does not understand what "15 minute cities" means, and he barley blinks.

Reasonable urbanist: "Hey wouldn't it be cool if there where some shops and businesses in your neighborhood so you didn't have to drive across the city to buy milk or or get a sandwich?"
Right wing nut: "THE GLOBAL ELITES ARE TRYING TO CONTROL WHAT YOU DO, NOW LET ME TELL YOU EXACTLY WHAT YOU CAN'T DO! YOU CAN'T SETUP A CAFE IN YOUR HOUSE!"

Edit: Wow, he spent so much of this video just bitching about some sort of traffic filtering scheme in Oxford, England.

Here’s the follow up.

 

[Northern Light]

Sometimes, you have to watch the quiet ones..........

LOL, I don't mean to call Councillor Colle quiet............but....

A motion for a report request was slipped on to yesterday's I&E agenda.

Should the ensuing report result in an approved project, it has interesting implications.

The request is to consider removing the southbound on ramp to Allen Road from Lawrence Avenue East.

That could, in turn have knock-on impacts in traffic volume on the Allen south of Lawrence, which may in turn impact other future choices...

Here's your motion:

 

[innsertnamehere]

anyone know what the volumes are for the southbound ramp there? I don't imagine it's particularly high.. but full removal still seems a bit drastic. It could probably be reconfigured from it's current design with a slip ramp though.

The biggest benefit from the closure I could see would be enabling the creation of a double-left turn lane for the northbound Allen Rd access by converting the existing southbound left turn.. but that could just as easily be completed by banning left turns onto the ramp and making it so that it's only accessible by vehicles travelling eastbound on Lawrence.

There is the un-used westbound lane on the north side of the bridge that could easily be converted to allow for a double-left turn lane as well, of course..

 

[Rainforest]

The southbound ramp from Lawrence is of very little use. Just 2 km to the end of Allen Rd, of which the final 1 km packed with cars trying to exit to Eglinton.

I hardly ever see a car on that ramp, either looking from the subway train or driving down Allen.

The loss of that ramp won't change the traffic volumes in any noticeable way. But if that simplifies the traffic patterns around the Lawrence West Stn, then it is probably a good idea to get rid of that ramp.

 

[rdaner]

Best idea ever! Turn the Allen into a canal!!!

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[Northern Light]

Best idea ever! Turn the Allen into a canal!!!

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No, not a good idea at all. You just put Line 1 under water, and not just the exposed part, the water will run into the tunnels flooding the line for endless km.

What was done in your example piece was to put back a canal where one had been previously, where one made sense and with a much smaller footprint, great project but not a transferable example.

Allen should be filled in, at the very least south of Lawrence, but ideally south of Yorkdale Mall. The Subway would get covered, this would add TTC costs, unfortunately, but the benefits in linking neighbourhoods together and making more functional communities with additional parkland and housing would be worth it.

 

[rdaner]

I believe that decking over infrastructure with a shallow pool on top is what is being done. Think the pools at the Aga Khan Gardens. Just an idea to introduce a large-scale element into the urban landscape as water features are such an amenity.

If only Claude Cormier were still with us as he would know exactly what to do. And if this was Montreal they would already be building it! Lol

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/9.4224774