Ottawa Mayor Charged With Bribery

[Zephyr]

I've been using the word terrible when you actually used horrible.



By who's measure is his record horrible; yours or Ecology Ottawa? How are you defining horrible? Is the environment of Ottawa measurably worse off than before he was elected?

I'm saying that he hardly has a record on environmental issues. Then again, he hardly has a record of success on any of issues for which he was elected. An empty beer glass is not a horrible glass of beer; it is an empty glass of beer. There is nothing there to judge. That is my opinion.

Your opinion is formed on the basis of two non-elected interest groups who have a specific agenda in mind, and that's fine. That the mayor and council has not fulfilled what these specific groups demand means that the mayor and council has not met the demands of these groups.

I noted the pre-edit version.

Do you want to address the issues on the table rhetorically or substantively? If I answer one of your questions I would be saying that I didn't answer it before, when I in fact did.

I do not care if they are non-elected groups, there have always been such groups in modern day democracies - they are called lobbies. There are probably some of them out there representing what you believe in as well.
I have been a member of Sierra Club for fifteen years, and I see nothing to be ashamed about, in declaring that.

These groups are attempting to make policy issues on the environment available for review and broadcast to the public for their consideration. What in the world is wrong with that. They didn't tell O'Brien how to vote, nor anyone else. The fact that they do indicate their position on issues and attempt to influence voters to be aware of those issues is not evil, nor especially unusual. I don't think this lobby has ever been accused of bribing like Abramoff in the US or our Malroney friend here in Canada.

BTW 'terrible' and 'horrible' are emotive-reaction words, they shouldn't be overly analyzed as you are doing presently. I know that the points are clear enough, it is matter of a difference in degree on what to draw from the same material. As a matter of fact, within these organisations there is often a pull in different directions before a report is filed. I happen to know that just such a scenario occurred in this instance.

In the meantime let me make this clear: my opinion is forged from multiple factors not just one organisation, one vote, one anything, or even a few more of these. I am widely read on a number of these matters, without claiming to be an expert on any. I do not think it is unusual to see patterns and make judgements on the fly. If the environment were the only issue for me I wouldn't have voted for certain candidates in other elections in the past, but it is one of the more important set of issues that I weigh.

 

[Hydrogen]

I'll repeat myself:

I'm saying that O'Brien (and the present council) hardly has a record on environmental issues to judge. He hardly has a record of success on any of issues for which he was elected. He or council have not done much. Do you see what I am saying? If you think that is a defence of O'Brien, I suggest you read it again!

The list provided is an agenda, not a litany of failures.

 

[Zephyr]

I can read. The point I am making is that there are indices. You hope that you have many more indices, and a more comprehensive sampling beyond that of the many environmental issues that one is concerned with, but you don't always get what you want.

I also don't like his politics as well, and there is an abundance of that to observe, his current scandal not withstanding.

I understand that you are not uncritical of Mr. O'Brien, I noted what you said in the margins. I do have respect for your positions even when I disagree fundamentally, because I am aware that you have come to them with thought and information.

I hope you would occasionally grant me the same respect. I am not a wild-eyed environmentalist, and I am far left of your politics, but I am not attempting to overthrow the government, in attempting to express my point of view.

 

[Zephyr]

Hydrogen - ...I will give you my personal guarantee that if I can find an internet copy of the report that details above I will place it here ...

Here you go Hydrogen, and anyone else who wants to read it. Below is the link to the Executive Summary which also contains links to the reports. In addition, each issue is linked to a document which explains it. All-and-all a very comprehensive website:

ECOLOGY OTTAWA REPORTS-AND-LINKS​

.​

 

[Hydrogen]

So this mayor has not done what they want?

I'm sure anyone can select whatever agenda they see fit and demand that any mayor act on it. Set the bar higher and deem whoever is being judged with ever more negative descriptions.

I lived in Ottawa for a long time, and it was a clean city - and still is. I think there was something like one bad air day this past summer - and that according to the new standards. But I wouldn't want good news to foul things up.

 

[Zephyr]

Well I'm not here to convince you of anything. If you are so convinced that all is well then I guess it wouldn't matter anyway. I hope that this information will be of use to someone else.