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Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

Fritter said:
In the photo, does it not look like there is a 2nd track bed prepped, at the very least space in the RoW for a 2nd track? I cannot see why a 2nd track would be required, unless someone really, really wanted to future proof for one.
Click to expand...
I did not notice that. The line used to go straight thru a few decades ago. Maybe that is what you see.
 
Fritter said:
In the photo, does it not look like there is a 2nd track bed prepped, at the very least space in the RoW for a 2nd track? I cannot see why a 2nd track would be required, unless someone really, really wanted to future proof for one.
Click to expand...
That's just gravel laid down to allow construction equipment to access the area to build the bypass.
 
I see Air Canada has scaled back services between NB and Toronto to four times per week starting November. Sad to say, but for a 'city' with a population of 52,000 people, which is about twice what it was when I was a toddler, but virtually unchanged since the late 70's, early 80's, perhaps that is the market.

Which should make the Northlander all that more important.

CTV news quoted the following: The revived Northlander service will include 16 stops along its route from Toronto to Cochrane, with an estimated total travel time of four to five hours, including regular stops. Is this quote supported by any documentation anywhere else. It is certainly a competitive time.

And then finally, has the bypass been mapped and posted anywhere? Just curious.
 
just east of the creek said:
I see Air Canada has scaled back services between NB and Toronto to four times per week starting November. Sad to say, but for a 'city' with a population of 52,000 people, which is about twice what it was when I was a toddler, but virtually unchanged since the late 70's, early 80's, perhaps that is the market.

Which should make the Northlander all that more important.

CTV news quoted the following: The revived Northlander service will include 16 stops along its route from Toronto to Cochrane, with an estimated total travel time of four to five hours, including regular stops. Is this quote supported by any documentation anywhere else. It is certainly a competitive time.

And then finally, has the bypass been mapped and posted anywhere? Just curious.
Click to expand...
rac.jmaponline.net

RAC Canadian Rail Atlas

rac.jmaponline.net rac.jmaponline.net

It is on there.

OpenRailwayMap

OpenRailwayMap - An OpenStreetMap-based project for creating a map of the world's railway infrastructure.
www.openrailwaymap.org www.openrailwaymap.org

And there.
 
just east of the creek said:
I see Air Canada has scaled back services between NB and Toronto to four times per week starting November. Sad to say, but for a 'city' with a population of 52,000 people, which is about twice what it was when I was a toddler, but virtually unchanged since the late 70's, early 80's, perhaps that is the market.

Which should make the Northlander all that more important.

CTV news quoted the following: The revived Northlander service will include 16 stops along its route from Toronto to Cochrane, with an estimated total travel time of four to five hours, including regular stops. Is this quote supported by any documentation anywhere else. It is certainly a competitive time.

And then finally, has the bypass been mapped and posted anywhere? Just curious.
Click to expand...
It also helps with Highway 11 being completely grade separated and four laned that fast travel North Bay - Toronto is super convenient. No more lights or slowing down in each town.
 
Garuda said:
It also helps with Highway 11 being completely grade separated and four laned that fast travel North Bay - Toronto is super convenient. No more lights or slowing down in each town.
Click to expand...
Correct me if I am wrong, but between Callander and Huntsville, when was there lights along that section?
 
just east of the creek said:
I see Air Canada has scaled back services between NB and Toronto to four times per week starting November. Sad to say, but for a 'city' with a population of 52,000 people, which is about twice what it was when I was a toddler, but virtually unchanged since the late 70's, early 80's, perhaps that is the market.
Click to expand...
I hadn't realized that Porter or anyone else wasn't on that route. Gosh, not cheap either - looks like fares go up in November. Almost $800 return at a dead time of year, on a weekday.

I guess there's just no demand. And the only flight is at noon ... so can't fly in, do whatever you need to do, and then fly home.

I guess there's so much less business travel, with the increase in remote working.
 
nfitz said:
I hadn't realized that Porter or anyone else wasn't on that route. Gosh, not cheap either - looks like fares go up in November. Almost $800 return at a dead time of year, on a weekday.

I guess there's just no demand. And the only flight is at noon ... so can't fly in, do whatever you need to do, and then fly home.

I guess there's so much less business travel, with the increase in remote working.
Click to expand...
Pre-Covid, there were three flights per day; one really early, one mid-day and one late night. The early and late flights were really popular for people making connections, and even if your business was in Toronto, you could still return on the late flight. After Covid they re-introduced the single mid-day flight (a condition of the feds for giving AC money) but initially it was very unreliable - cancellations at the last minute - so people stopped using it. Our daughter is with DND and they started allowing personal vehicle allowance and accommodation without question in lieu of the airfare because too many were being left stranded.

I don't know how much WFH has to do with it but the option of a single inconvenient flight sure isn't helping. I've never quite understood why they don't have NB as a leg of a Timmins flight; but I've never run an airline.
 
just east of the creek said:
And then finally, has the bypass been mapped and posted anywhere? Just curious.
Click to expand...
Just to add, the RAC atlas shows the bypass as CN territory - it is not. CN property ends just south of the Old Callander Rd. crossing (former end-of-track).

Interestingly, the Emergency Notification sign ('blue sign') at the crossing identifies it as 'ONR Newmarket Sub'. Harbinger of some future development?

It's hard to tell if this 'bypass' track is a new iteration of a previous connection. Connections come-and-go, and a satellite view seems to show a scar from a previous track in the SE quadrant of the former diamond, but a 1965 map I found only shows a connecting track in the NW quadrant (connecting the ONR yard to the former CN Alderdale>Newmarket sub towards the former station).
 
lenaitch said:
Pre-Covid, there were three flights per day; one really early, one mid-day and one late night. The early and late flights were really popular for people making connections, and even if your business was in Toronto, you could still return on the late flight. After Covid they re-introduced the single mid-day flight (a condition of the feds for giving AC money) but initially it was very unreliable - cancellations at the last minute - so people stopped using it. Our daughter is with DND and they started allowing personal vehicle allowance and accommodation without question in lieu of the airfare because too many were being left stranded.

I don't know how much WFH has to do with it but the option of a single inconvenient flight sure isn't helping. I've never quite understood why they don't have NB as a leg of a Timmins flight; but I've never run an airline.
Click to expand...
Air Canada ending service to North Bay effective 30 Jan 2026.

www.nugget.ca

Air Canada suspends all service in and out of North Bay starting January - UPDATED

Air Canada announced on its website the airline will no longer be offering flights out or into North Bay effective January.
www.nugget.ca www.nugget.ca
 
lenaitch said:
Just to add, the RAC atlas shows the bypass as CN territory - it is not. CN property ends just south of the Old Callander Rd. crossing (former end-of-track).

Interestingly, the Emergency Notification sign ('blue sign') at the crossing identifies it as 'ONR Newmarket Sub'. Harbinger of some future development?
Click to expand...

A 2002 track map shows the first section of the bypass north/west of the switch at MP 226.8 Newmarket Sub as CN but the more northerly end as ONR. I imagine CN may have conveyed that east end over to Old Callander Road (MP 226.44) to ONR - the first step in an abandonment is to offer track to another operating railway, so this transaction might have happened without any public notice.

lenaitch said:
It's hard to tell if this 'bypass' track is a new iteration of a previous connection. Connections come-and-go, and a satellite view seems to show a scar from a previous track in the SE quadrant of the former diamond, but a 1965 map I found only shows a connecting track in the NW quadrant (connecting the ONR yard to the former CN Alderdale>Newmarket sub towards the former station).
Click to expand...

The history on this relates to the move of the ONR station from the old location on the Alderdale Sub to the new station on the ONR, and the removal of signalling from the old CN-ON diamond, .

From a 1978 Employee Timetable:

First track in front of (old) North Bay station is O.N.R. main track. The second track in front of North Bay station is Alderdale Sub. main track. The junction switch (first main track switch west of North Bay station) is normal when set for Alderdale Sub. main track.
Normal routing for passenger trains originating or terminating at North Bay is to and from O.N.R. maint track via second crossover east of station. Crossover switches for these movements will be handled by yard crew except if yard crew not available, train crew will handle their own switches.
Click to expand...

No mention of the connecting track at all.

The 1963 ONR timetable cited below notes that trains were routed from the old CNR station along the south side of the ONR yard to a junction with the ONR at Staffend, which was roughly where the ONR Yard Office sits. A dual control switch at Stafend allowed passenger trains to leave and enter the ONR Temagami Sub. The other connecting track you noted was not part of the normal operating move for passenger trains. My own recollection dates to 1984 and that was still the operating pattern at that time.

By 1993, an old timetable tells me that the Alderdale Sub had been made a part of the Newmarket Sub with the connecting switch gaining a Station Name sign (Dykstra), and the connecting track identified as the default route, with switches lined for the connecting track. Operation on the old Alderdale line west of Dykstra was prohibited, but track was not yet torn up.

Whew. Thanks for sending me down the rabbit hole on a Sunday morning ;-)

Some interesting online source material




- Paul
 
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