micheal_can
Senior Member
That would be best, but for me, something within walking distance is more what I mean. So, even in North Bay, they have hotels nearby. Not so good in a blizzard, but close enough for what I mean.
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Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation
- Thread starter CDL.TO
- Start date
Sauga89
New Member
Honestly, I would expect any demand for passenger rail in Muskoka would have more to do with serving summer cottage country travellers than winter driving. Even the Northlander might find itself used by cottage-goers in the summer if it's priced cheaply enough, despite being a long-distance train.
As for hotels, I could maybe see some of the more high-end hotels and resorts around Gravenhurst offering shuttles timed to the train's arrival if the Northlander was fast, reliable, reasonably comfortable, and convenient enough to attract tourists. That might be a big if though. And even then any tourism use would probably need marketing, because I'm not sure how many Toronto residents such as myself even know about the Northlander as a future option.
As for hotels, I could maybe see some of the more high-end hotels and resorts around Gravenhurst offering shuttles timed to the train's arrival if the Northlander was fast, reliable, reasonably comfortable, and convenient enough to attract tourists. That might be a big if though. And even then any tourism use would probably need marketing, because I'm not sure how many Toronto residents such as myself even know about the Northlander as a future option.
ownthesky
New Member
Many had said that the cottage country commute is not a train friendly one because folks need to drive to the cottage, but I think people forget how much of owning a cottage in Canada is inviting your friends and family from the city for the weekend, with the cottage owner doing the pick-up for last mile. I’d be pleasantly surprised if this became a popular route for that kind of thing, like ski trains in the European alps. On that note, if VIA wasn’t so dreadful, I’d use it to do a lot more skiing in Quebec…
nfitz
Superstar
Say what?
Going to get the university-aged kids from somewhere perhaps ... but who goes to get their friends for the last mile - unless it's by boat?
Sauga89
New Member
I can't speak for him, but I believe he meant that "much of owning a cottage in Canada is inviting your friends and family from the city for the weekend, and the cottage owner could do the pick-up for last mile."
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ownthesky
New Member
You take a train up from the GTA and the cottage owner picks you up. The train stops are nowhere near cottage and no one is walking to any cottage lol
crs1026
Superstar
With the trend to remote working, I have to think that a train service that enables people to work from the cottage while easily accessing downtown Toronto on the days that they must be at the office (or attend appointments, etc) would generate ridership.
I suspect that some already do this, but riding a stopping GO train to Bloomington or Barrie and then making a further long drive is not that marketable. A more express service that cuts the driving component down significantly would be a higher level of value.
- Paul
I suspect that some already do this, but riding a stopping GO train to Bloomington or Barrie and then making a further long drive is not that marketable. A more express service that cuts the driving component down significantly would be a higher level of value.
- Paul
Sauga89
New Member
The problem is that the Northlander I think isn't going to be timed for that. I think I read that it's supposed to leave Toronto around 9 a.m., and come back in the other direction late at night. That's not bad for cottage-goers headed up for a week or two, but isn't suitable for day trips into the city. There's also the issue that it might have to wait behind freight trains a lot.
As a side-note (and this probably belongs more in the GO services thread), I'm modestly surprised that the 400 widening through Barrie didn't include provisions for a future rebuilding of the Newmarket subdivision between Barrie and Gravenhurst. If you're rebuilding every bridge over the highway anyway to help with cottage country traffic, I can't imagine it would cost that much extra to leave room for a track or two. Even if you didn't plan on rebuilding the subdivision for another 10 to 20 years because of the cost, it would make it a lot easier to do if you already had a right of way through Barrie when the time came (as well as allowing for a North Barrie GO station to be built in the meantime).
Allandale25
Senior Member
New conference today at 1PM in Timmins with the Minister of Transportation.
Live stream link is listed here: https://news.ontario.ca/en/advisory/1005454/minister-sarkaria-to-hold-a-press-conference
Live stream link is listed here: https://news.ontario.ca/en/advisory/1005454/minister-sarkaria-to-hold-a-press-conference
Fritter
Active Member
I would think any rail further north of Barrie would use BCR over to Utopia and join in to CPKC's Macteir sub as any reactivation of the Newmarket right of way between Allendale and Washago is near impossible by Barrie waterfront renewal, housing built over the right of way in north Barrie and Casino Rama's structures over the right of way.
Northern Light
Superstar
lenaitch
Senior Member
The timetable in the Business Case shows Gravenhurst s/b @ 0840 (which isn't bad) and n/b at 2045 (which isn't great).
As was discussed extensively during Covid, problems with living year-'round at a Muskoka cottage can include factors such as zoning, winter road access, Internet access, etc. not to mention winterizing the structure itself. As we saw during the recent snowstorm, many of the power outages were in areas considered 'seasonal' (that is a billing service classification) and Hydro One will get around to restoring it . . . sometime.
The number of cottages that are directly on a year-'round regional or municipal road are comparatively small.
This has also been discussed before. I know that the Province has long range plans to upgrade Hwy 11 north of Barrie but no clue about the timelines. I believe the current expansion project ends at Hwy400/11 junction ('Willow Creek'). I suspect it is way, way into the future. I'm never convinced that, outside of the prairies, the alignments required for road and rail are all that compatible. If nothing else, you want major highways to bypass towns but train stations to be in town. Also, no one has ever explained to me how they would get rail from Barrie-Allendale out to Hwy 11. I know people have all sorts of funky ideas that look cool on paper, and I don't want to derail this ONR thread for something that, in my opinion, belongs in a fantasy thread.
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Northern Light
Superstar
I don't think that's at all fair.
Its quite straight-forward to go from Allandale along the BCRY to the 400. IF provision were made within the 400 ROW for rail, its easy lay new track and at the appropriate juncture, side jaunt to Orillia and across (or follow 11 further and make the connection upstream.
Whether or not that should be a top priority is a fair discussion; but its a perfectly viable routing option, in theory.
There are essentially only 3 other choices, (if one wishes to remake the connection); the original route, more or less, which would be problematic for Barrie's waterfront and involve removing some subsequently built homes, tunnelling, or following BCRY beyond the 400 to make a greenfield connection.
That's not to suggest any of that discussion should necessarily be in this thread.
Sauga89
New Member
I stand corrected on the Northlander timings. I apologize, as I definitely should have double-checked. I must have confused the arrival time for the southbound train at Union with the departure time of the northbound train. My bad.
As for the Newmarket sub stuff, I'll quote you and reply in the GO services thread.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
So it would need to back out of Allendale to turn onto the BCRY? The trains are capable of that but I don't know if passengers will enjoy travelling backwards for half their trip.